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Post by Aegis on Aug 26, 2017 0:43:15 GMT
You guys have too much prejudices... You think that if someone complains is always to get stronger things...
I have said that the new Kraye is very strong, I'm not saying he is weak. Actually, he will probably become one of the strongest casters in Cygnar now, to the point of even being too strong.
The problem is that he is strong in a way that I don't find thematic with him.
If Caine3 was a melee OP monster, I would say the same, since Caine theme is being a ranged monster.
Kraye theme should be positioning and mobility, not charging you from another country. I would have preferred a LESS powerful Kraye, but with less focus on charge (that is Stryker3 thing).
And the "new guy" was just an example... There are quite a bit of casters not focussed on mobility, but that can make move ("move", not charge) the battlegroup as fast or even faster than Kraye, one exemple is Haley2 as I said, that is not thematically tied with mobility at all but moves jacks faster than Kraye (so you don't say that I complain about other people toys).
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Aug 26, 2017 0:44:17 GMT
I gotta agree with rowdy guys....kraye is an amazing caster...why in the world are you guys griping about him?... Because their +3 Speed spell (For only 2 focus) only works on a charge or slam. On top of his cocompletely unscouty feat of removing stealth and making their attack distances even further. I guess Pathfinder and Reposition 5 just aint enough Scouting for Cygnar. |
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Aug 26, 2017 0:47:09 GMT
I love new Kraye. I do think he matches his fluff fairly well. Sure, he's a scout. But when he and his army are in a fight, they aren't going to dance around skirmishing.
Kraye uses tons of mobility. He extends charge ranges, and gives reposition out. His primary defensive spell is admonition, which I am super hyped to have in my faction.
A Centurion can charge something 15" away, hit it a couple times, repo back 5" (no free strike if the target only has 1" melee), and imprint. Then Kraye can slap Admonition on it. It is 7" from the target, unchargable, and has admonition. Crazy good.
Innate Pathfinder is so good I don't even know what to say. I just love it.
His gun is good. Nuff said.
I just like the look of this caster, and am excited to play him.
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Post by Aegis on Aug 26, 2017 0:48:36 GMT
I gotta agree with rowdy guys....kraye is an amazing caster...why in the world are you guys griping about him?... Because their +3 Speed spell (For only 2 focus) only works on a charge or slam. On top of his cocompletely unscouty feat of removing stealth and making their attack distances even further. I guess Pathfinder and Reposition 5 just aint enough Scouting for Cygnar. Rowdy, what is so difficult to understand on the words "I'm not saying that he is not strong"? I actually said that he could even be OP if we find a correct way to maximize his tools. What I said that he is focussed on a theme that isn't what I would have liked to see for him. |
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Post by droopingpuppy on Aug 26, 2017 0:49:54 GMT
Better charge is also an aspect of the scout, I think. It allows you to set an ambush because you saw the enemy first, and able to launch an onslaught and get the advantage. It also means that you can get the enemy when they are not prepared, while you are fully prepared to hit them hard. Skirmishing then rush through the loosen enemy line is the main tactics of the light cavalry too.
Unless he is only want to have a brief scan the enemy then retreat, he needs a card for the offensive move, and the better charge is actually fit with that.
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Post by Aegis on Aug 26, 2017 0:55:55 GMT
Better charge is also an aspect of the scout, I think. It allows you to set an ambush, and able to launch an onslaught and get the advantage, and it also means that you can get the enemy when they are not prepared. Skirmishing then rush through the loosen enemy line is the main tactics of the light cavalry too. The feat OR the spell would have been enough to emphasy charges, both are too much focus on charges IMO. Again, I would have preferred to have LESS threat range, but have more speed approaching. The point of scouts is arriving on the field before others and getting positioned well, not to charge you from the space shouting like maniacs. Stryker3 is made to be our caster that focusses on charges, having two of them is a thematic overlap. That said, this is my opinion. On mechanics level, I love Kraye, I will play tons with him in future, and I foresee him as one of our best casters in tournaments, but on thematic level I think he missed the mark a bit, and it's a missed chance. |
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Aug 26, 2017 0:56:19 GMT
Rowdy, what is so difficult to understand on the words "I'm not saying that he is not strong"? I actually said that he could even be OP if we find a correct way to maximize his tools. What I said that he is focussed on a theme that isn't what I would have liked to see for him. He just seems pretty scoutlike to me =P. Denying Ranged Attacks, Scouting to allow for ranged attacks, Reposition, Pathfinder, Denying attacks, not sure what else you want. |
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Post by droopingpuppy on Aug 26, 2017 1:01:46 GMT
The way how making the charge effective for Stryker3 and Kraye are totally diffrent. Stryker3 makes the charge more deadly, but Kraye makes the charge more farther and easier, but don't care for the more damage output at all. Although Stryker3 also have a speed buff, but that's all, and only for 2" additional move Nemos are not so bad either.
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Aug 26, 2017 1:02:33 GMT
Better charge is also an aspect of the scout, I think. It allows you to set an ambush, and able to launch an onslaught and get the advantage, and it also means that you can get the enemy when they are not prepared. Skirmishing then rush through the loosen enemy line is the main tactics of the light cavalry too. The feat OR the spell would have been enough to emphasy charges, both are too much focus on charges IMO. Again, I would have preferred to have LESS threat range, but have more speed approaching. The point of scouts is arriving on the field before others and getting positioned well, not to charge you from the space shouting like maniacs. Stryker3 is made to be our caster that focusses on charges, having two of them is a thematic overlap. That said, this is my opinion. On mechanics level, I love Kraye, I will play tons with him in future, and I foresee him as one of our best casters in tournaments, but on thematic level I think he missed the mark a bit, and it's a missed chance. Well, PP only changed Horsepower to Charges only because they didn't want jacks trampling then repositioning along with the +3". A Centurion would move 15" Turn 1. |
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Post by Aegis on Aug 26, 2017 1:09:38 GMT
The feat OR the spell would have been enough to emphasy charges, both are too much focus on charges IMO. Again, I would have preferred to have LESS threat range, but have more speed approaching. The point of scouts is arriving on the field before others and getting positioned well, not to charge you from the space shouting like maniacs. Stryker3 is made to be our caster that focusses on charges, having two of them is a thematic overlap. That said, this is my opinion. On mechanics level, I love Kraye, I will play tons with him in future, and I foresee him as one of our best casters in tournaments, but on thematic level I think he missed the mark a bit, and it's a missed chance. Well, PP only changed Horsepower to Charges only because they didn't want jacks trampling then repositioning along with the +3". A Centurion would move 15" Turn 1. In fact +3 always was too much. +2 would have been better. Haley can make a Centurion move 14" turn 1, and has no thematic ties with mobility at all. If Kraye could do the same, while not being the Control monster she is, it wouldn't have been a tragedy. |
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Aug 26, 2017 1:13:07 GMT
Well, PP only changed Horsepower to Charges only because they didn't want jacks trampling then repositioning along with the +3". A Centurion would move 15" Turn 1. In fact +3 always was too much. +2 would have been better. Haley can make a Centurion move 14" turn 1, and has no thematic ties with mobility at all. If Kraye could do the same, while not being the Control monster she is, it wouldn't have been a tragedy. Haley can make ONE jack move a great distance. Kraye can move his whole battlegroup that far, while also giving them pathfinder. These two things are very different. Kraye is mobility king. |
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Post by Aegis on Aug 26, 2017 1:14:26 GMT
In fact +3 always was too much. +2 would have been better. Haley can make a Centurion move 14" turn 1, and has no thematic ties with mobility at all. If Kraye could do the same, while not being the Control monster she is, it wouldn't have been a tragedy. Haley can make ONE jack move a great distance. Kraye can move his whole battlegroup that far, while also giving them pathfinder. These two things are very different. Kraye is mobility king. Actually, the released Kraye can move a Centurion max 12" inches. That Haley (and I'm using Haley as an example to not involve other factions, but things like Field Marshal +2 SPD can do the same for whole battlegroups) can beat Kraye (that SHOULD be the mobility king) at the mobility game while not being tied with mobility at all disturbs me. That said, I have learned from all the recent discussions about the various fluff abominations PP is releasing that my personal focus on fluff and theme isn't shared by most people here, so no point in continuing this discussion. Kraye is very strong so Cygnar players are happy, and since it is strong every wish to see it different is perceived as a whine or as a claim that he is not strong enough by other people, so I would be misunderstood anyway. Ignore me. I'm just a fluff nerd with his own strange perceptions and priorities on what is important when designing a piece. |
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Aug 26, 2017 1:34:36 GMT
Actually, the released Kraye can move a Centurion max 12" inches. That Haley (and I'm using Haley as an example to not involve other factions, but things like Field Marshal +2 SPD can do the same for whole battlegroups) can beat Kraye (that SHOULD be the mobility king) Mobility king HOW (And why mobility king when scouting involves more then mobility)? You can be a king in many ways. The reason I feel like your not as fluff in love as you say because he seems pretty mobility kingy already. You keep saying "Its not about the threat range!" but then kinda just want that anyway? |
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Post by Aegis on Aug 26, 2017 1:45:19 GMT
Actually, the released Kraye can move a Centurion max 12" inches. That Haley (and I'm using Haley as an example to not involve other factions, but things like Field Marshal +2 SPD can do the same for whole battlegroups) can beat Kraye (that SHOULD be the mobility king) Mobility king HOW (And why mobility king when scouting involves more then mobility)? You can be a king in many ways. The reason I feel like your not as fluff in love as you say because he seems pretty mobility kingy already. You keep saying "Its not about the threat range!" but then kinda just want that anyway? We are talking about turn 1 movements, not charges. I don't give a *** about threat ranges. For me, Kraye should have LESS threat range than he has now. Just to say, I intervened to agree with someone complaining that Kraye is too strong, so you are very off if you think that I would like him stronger than he is: Kraye: IMO the biggest failiure of CID. He has nothing to do with scouting ATM. Iron Horse is just a ridicullous now. Horsepower, Jumpstart and the feat all speak to charging Warjacks who will alpha hard and then control you via Admonition/countermeaure/reposition... Not scouting at all. I love how +5" threat is no biggie... There are many examples of why I think giving a +5" charge range but +0" movement range feels off theme on kraye, one of them as an example is the fact that between all this charge and trample+reposition focus he shifted too much toward melee than he should have (in MK2 he had Fire Group. He is supposed to prefer shooting than melee). That said, again, I don't want to continue this discussion. The topic isn't only on Kraye, and anyway I notice that I'm not able to express my point well and continue to get misunderstood, so no point continuing. |
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Post by jisidro on Aug 26, 2017 7:49:18 GMT
The fact that he has Ironhorse is not reflected anywhere else on his card. Which given what ironhorse does is bonkers. Repo 5, Cav rules and pathfinder... jesus.
But his feat is normal lvl feat, at minimum, his spell list follows the idea that nukes are a waste of a "spell slot"... We'll see how it goes.
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