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Post by Gamingdevil on Aug 25, 2017 8:07:47 GMT
But how the change works? So she can stop the enemy jacks reliably but does nothing against hordes of infantries.... Well, Cygnar is always good at clear them in distance, though. Against low model count armies it is basically the same feat. Against units, you can still pseudo-affect them by tagging the unit commanders, which will limit how far the unit can move as whole. Like you said, usually Cygnar doesn't really have a problem with infantry swarms and a Temporal Accelerated Storm Strider will still clear plenty.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Aug 25, 2017 9:08:21 GMT
The Haley 2 change is an utterly enormous buff for Cryx, Cryx are now top faction again, no shadow of a doubt
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Post by jisidro on Aug 25, 2017 11:06:08 GMT
By the numbers:
I'm not a fan of quality of life changes (In wow they merged classes together until a pet is glorified DOT and totems are just annoying spell effects I wish I could turn off somehow.) but this change is good as it allows for.... #designspace.
Kraye: IMO the biggest failiure of CID. He has nothing to do with scouting ATM. Iron Horse is just a ridicullous now. Horsepower, Jumpstart and the feat all speak to charging Warjacks who will alpha hard and then control you via Admonition/countermeaure/reposition... Not scouting at all. I love how +5" threat is no biggie...
Haley2: Looks better for everyone else now... is it enough to put other casters on the table?
Grenadier: Time to sell a few more? Better manual reload and random POW 15 charges should put more on the table... (How easy are they to convert? What is their base chassis?)
Hunter: #Design Space
Minuteman: Another CId disaster IMO. He is a close combat fighter, he is right next to siege when he charges down the Hill he just made... ECR is just better than not having it.
Triumph: Guess I'll know what he looks like now... Another argumente for the reduction of costs on most character warbeasts...
Long Gunners: Not enough?
Storm Lances: POW 16 is what khador has, what protectorate gets if they get damaged... Why should lances hit the same while keeping their Ranged attack, leaps on melee and native reach?
Trencher cannon crew: Should all similar models have AD if the cannon needed it?
Laddermore: Still great just not a perma-mini-feat.
Trencher Buster: 8 boxes, cool. How long until everyone has 8 boxes? Perhaps the Man'O'War go to 10?
Haley2 has shown her devotion for Cygnar by taking a hit and making room for so many buffs. This is what should have happened to Trolls/Khador/Circle when their top casters got hit.
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Post by droopingpuppy on Aug 25, 2017 12:11:52 GMT
Kraye: IMO the biggest failiure of CID. He has nothing to do with scouting ATM. Iron Horse is just a ridicullous now. Horsepower, Jumpstart and the feat all speak to charging Warjacks who will alpha hard and then control you via Admonition/countermeaure/reposition... Not scouting at all. I love how +5" threat is no biggie... Well, actually he looks much better now. He don't need to spend a half of focus just for Pathfinder, and his feat is full of 'scouting'. Haley2: Looks better for everyone else now... is it enough to put other casters on the table? Not much, but I think that Haley3 is always able to competitive with her. Grenadier: Time to sell a few more? Better manual reload and random POW 15 charges should put more on the table... (How easy are they to convert? What is their base chassis?) No it is impossible since Grenadier is Hunter chassis warjack, while Charger is Charger chassis warjack. Also still Charger is more flexible and accurate, and doesn't need for much focus unlike focus hog Grenadier. By forfeit the possibility of a worthless move it gains better competitiveness over the others. An another Cygnaran victory after gaining a real feat of Sloan. Minuteman: Another CId disaster IMO. He is a close combat fighter, he is right next to siege when he charges down the Hill he just made... ECR is just better than not having it. Not really. It is a jack that move around the enemy and ambush them, not the line fighter at all. It is actually well fit with its role. Triumph: Guess I'll know what he looks like now... Another argumente for the reduction of costs on most character warbeasts... I don't think that the others will get much discounts as Triumph does, because it was really worthless before the CID. Long Gunners: Not enough? Yeah, indeed it is not enough. Still it is a lackluster unit, even if we put aside the presence of new Trencher Long Gunners. They are simply bad, and they have the superior replacement as well. What the hell? Storm Lances: POW 16 is what khador has, what protectorate gets if they get damaged... Why should lances hit the same while keeping their Ranged attack, leaps on melee and native reach? That was the compensate for losing Electro Charger on Major Laddermore, but no one knows why it is the result. Trencher cannon crew: Should all similar models have AD if the cannon needed it? Well, they needs it to be functional. They costs 6 to 10 points(assuming adding Trencher Master Gunner, which is a mandatory choice to run them one per a battery), but they only has RNG 13 without Arcing Fire, and Dig In is expired when they moves so they needs to set the position by turn 1 then have to sit on the place all the times or easily slaughtered. Laddermore: Still great just not a perma-mini-feat. Some Cygnar gamers will like her, but I think that she is removed from the game since I can simply use a Firefly instead. 8 points is too much just for Veteran Leader[Storm Knight]. Trencher Buster: 8 boxes, cool. How long until everyone has 8 boxes? Perhaps the Man'O'War go to 10? Well, he needs it, for a combat solo he only has 5 boxes but costs ridiculous 6 points before that.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Aug 25, 2017 12:57:52 GMT
Trencher cannon crew: Should all similar models have AD if the cannon needed it? Well, they needs it to be functional. They costs 6 to 10 points(assuming adding Trencher Master Gunner, which is a mandatory choice to run them one per a battery), but they only has RNG 13 without Arcing Fire, and Dig In is expired when they moves so they needs to set the position by turn 1 then have to sit on the place all the times or easily slaughtered. Laddermore: Still great just not a perma-mini-feat. Some Cygnar gamers will like her, but I think that she is removed from the game since I can simply use a Firefly instead. 8 points is too much just for Veteran Leader[Storm Knight]. You know most light artillery has this problem, right? Also, Laddermore still hits hard and still have 2 lightning generators, once from her assault and one from her melee attack, as well as impacts. There should still be some use for her.
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Post by droopingpuppy on Aug 25, 2017 13:08:30 GMT
Well, they needs it to be functional. They costs 6 to 10 points(assuming adding Trencher Master Gunner, which is a mandatory choice to run them one per a battery), but they only has RNG 13 without Arcing Fire, and Dig In is expired when they moves so they needs to set the position by turn 1 then have to sit on the place all the times or easily slaughtered. Some Cygnar gamers will like her, but I think that she is removed from the game since I can simply use a Firefly instead. 8 points is too much just for Veteran Leader[Storm Knight]. You know most light artillery has this problem, right? Also, Laddermore still hits hard and still have 2 lightning generators, once from her assault and one from her melee attack, as well as impacts. There should still be some use for her. But most artillery are either have Arcing Fire or inexpensive, while most of them have RNG 14+(I know that not all of them are making it). Why I need to pay for 8 points for that? Units and jacks will kill the enemy, but solo needs to support the others.
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Post by jisidro on Aug 25, 2017 13:22:40 GMT
Sorry but this forums quote UI is a disaster... I don't know how to work it. Is there a way to see the code instead of pretty pics I cannot delete and manipulate? droopingpuppy : About Kraye: His feat is laser painting targets. That's bombardment, aka as, alfa strike. He looks much better, I agree just not a scout. He looks like a guy who got good intel not a guy that gets good intel. Grenadier: I didn't meant he Charger lost it's place. At all. I was asking for conversions of whatever chassis it might be. I'd use magnets since good lights is a CygnarThing(TM). Minuteman: Read the command group. "Able to swiftly reach any part of the battlefield and obliterate the enemy with a punishing short-range assault, the Minuteman fills a critical role. It was designed to circumnavigate any obstacle, giving the Cygnaran Army a warjack with unparalleled mobility. Over time, it has become a favorite of Cygnar’s warcasters, particularly those who favor rapid assault tactics in the otherwise impassable trenches of no man’s land. " The solo operator people kept describing in CID is the hunter. This guy fights in the trenches. The argument of going out of the control area is mute since that is a blanket argument that every jack and beast can pull out.
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Post by droopingpuppy on Aug 25, 2017 13:39:01 GMT
Sorry but this forums quote UI is a disaster... I don't know how to work it. Is there a way to see the code instead of pretty pics I cannot delete and manipulate? Press 'reply' and enter edit mode, then you can see the tab 'Preview' and 'BBCode'left-below of the text page. Press BBCode makes it text, and press Preview returns to what you saw when you wrote that. droopingpuppy : About Kraye: His feat is laser painting targets. That's bombardment, aka as, alfa strike. He looks much better, I agree just not a scout. He looks like a guy who got good intel not a guy that gets good intel. Grenadier: I didn't meant he Charger lost it's place. At all. I was asking for conversions of whatever chassis it might be. I'd use magnets since good lights is a CygnarThing(TM). Minuteman: Read the command group. "Able to swiftly reach any part of the battlefield and obliterate the enemy with a punishing short-range assault, the Minuteman fills a critical role. It was designed to circumnavigate any obstacle, giving the Cygnaran Army a warjack with unparalleled mobility. Over time, it has become a favorite of Cygnar’s warcasters, particularly those who favor rapid assault tactics in the otherwise impassable trenches of no man’s land. " The solo operator people kept describing in CID is the hunter. This guy fights in the trenches. The argument of going out of the control area is mute since that is a blanket argument that every jack and beast can pull out. Well, Alpha Strike is always Kraye's favorate since the release date of him, and almost the only advantage of him as well. It is hardly possible to part it with him. And as I said, if you see both Cygnar light warjac's chassis you will know that both of them are totally diffrent, starting to the diffrent number of stack(Charger chassis have two, and Hunter chassis have one but bigger than a stack of the Charger chassis), they have diffrent shapes. Hunter is a sole operator, but so do Minuteman because it is the jack for the ambush, not the line combat.... I remember that in the CID many people likes the change because it fits with its role.
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Post by jisidro on Aug 25, 2017 14:15:05 GMT
Minuteman:
Where does that description say or describe an ambush it talks of short-range and rapid-strike assaults (Jump+Guns+Flak)... It's role was subverted on the later of "ECR is a great cool ability and we want it"...
It was hugely popular, I was the only (or very few) voices against it.
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Post by Aegis on Aug 25, 2017 20:19:15 GMT
Actually, I partially agree with jisidro.
Kraye is much better on power level now, probably not OP but strong enough to see tournament play, but it doesn't feel a scout at all.
They gave him too many bonuses "on charge" only. He should have kept the ability to be mobile outside charges. His thing should have been to be able to move across the board faster than others, getting in position better then others, not to charge from the moon to earth.
I would have liked to get Escort instead of the last version of Full Tilt. We have Stryker3 as a caster that only focus on leading the charge, Kraye should have been our recon.
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Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
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Post by Deller on Aug 25, 2017 23:05:26 GMT
The Haley 2 change is an utterly enormous buff for Cryx, Cryx are now top faction again, no shadow of a doubt I'm not actually sure it is. Weirdly enough Cryx, especially Ghost Fleet, was preying on the Heley2 dominated Cygnar really hard. If this change means less people playing Haley2 or less people teaching for Cygnar that means more people can tech for Cryx & Cryx is going to see less of one of its better matchups. That doesn't seem like very much of a Cryx buff.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Aug 25, 2017 23:33:36 GMT
Actually, I partially agree with jisidro. Kraye is much better on power level now, probably not OP but strong enough to see tournament play, but it doesn't feel a scout at all. They gave him too many bonuses "on charge" only. He should have kept the ability to be mobile outside charges. His thing should have been to be able to move across the board faster than others, getting in position better then others, not to charge from the moon to earth. I would have liked to get Escort instead of the last version of Full Tilt. We have Stryker3 as a caster that only focus on leading the charge, Kraye should have been our recon. Reposition 5 and Pathfinder just not good enough?
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Post by Aegis on Aug 26, 2017 0:30:15 GMT
Actually, I partially agree with jisidro. Kraye is much better on power level now, probably not OP but strong enough to see tournament play, but it doesn't feel a scout at all. They gave him too many bonuses "on charge" only. He should have kept the ability to be mobile outside charges. His thing should have been to be able to move across the board faster than others, getting in position better then others, not to charge from the moon to earth. I would have liked to get Escort instead of the last version of Full Tilt. We have Stryker3 as a caster that only focus on leading the charge, Kraye should have been our recon. Reposition 5 and Pathfinder just not good enough? Good... Great actually, but just look at the new Cyriss caster... He gives Reposition [3] to all his jacks, and he is a caster focussed on being a gunline caster... There are casters around that give +2 SPD as field marshal... Haley2 is a Control caster, but can make a jack move 4 inches more with TK + TA, and in MK2 she also had her bond to reach +6" (and in MK3 she can still do it with Jakes). I'm not complaining on power level. The new Kraye is strong. Very strong actually. But from the thematic point of view, I don't like that most of his mobility is tied to charges. I would have prefered less inches maybe, but working on every movement. His theme is recon and scouting, it means that his thing should be being able to reach places faster than other casters. That there are casters that haven't the mobility as theme, but can perform better than him at that is unthematic in my opinion, and again I don't like that he steps in the toes of Stryker3 into being a "Charge!" focussed caster.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Aug 26, 2017 0:33:24 GMT
I'm not complaining on power level. Yes you are. You already get more abilities that empower Scouts way more then any other faction (A Field Marshal that gives +3 Abilities at once all of which are pretty great) but because a new guy gives a fraction of what you get, its not good enough.
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Post by macdaddy on Aug 26, 2017 0:38:08 GMT
I gotta agree with rowdy guys....kraye is an amazing caster...why in the world are you guys griping about him?...
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