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Post by c0deb1ue on Nov 3, 2017 12:15:05 GMT
On the contrary, its exactly for design space and more pallies in the future that the champ doesn't do anything major for them. Effectively the champ is a tough and fast piece that also likes vilmon's cadre. He's not really a support/cadre piece. We can't expect the champ to 'fix' pallies. I mean firstly no such future paladins or units have even been mentioned. We don't even have a vague date about the mysterious exemplar CID yet let alone all this talk about future paladins. Even if future paladins existed they are Revelator timescales away. So do you really think that leaving the overcosted 4pt paladin solos still unplayable until then, is a better alternative than just toning down a decent champion elite cadre ability when the TBC Paladin CID happens at a later point. Faithful masses was supposed to include the paladins in a list but instead it just wants you to buy £50 of solos who do nothing with the rest of the paladins. They needn't have even been paladins and they still require Vilmon in addition to work at optimum. You are correct that they have purposefully decided that he won't be a support piece by making his leadership ability very situational at best and bounded by 9" CMD for a bunch of solos.
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Nov 3, 2017 12:49:48 GMT
OP pieces poison everyone's expectations--unless a new piece is equal to the broken stuff, it's trash and useless Well said! So sad so many posters use those "arguments". On the other hand - is there anyone with actual in-game experience with the new dragoon to share ? I would gladly read some useful and valid opinion for a change.
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Post by flamigant on Nov 3, 2017 13:28:26 GMT
Is everyone forgetting he is still a 13/18 dismounted solo with tough/steady?
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Post by bskhacker on Nov 3, 2017 13:31:26 GMT
I'm actually looking forward to see him on the table. He's a durable fast good combat solo that I feel can contest like a boss and he has minior support for paladins. Also though no knock down yes please. I think you guys are crazy to write him off so early with out at least trying him. Does he fix paladins no but I think that's ok.
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Post by c0deb1ue on Nov 3, 2017 13:37:34 GMT
I'm actually looking forward to see him on the table. He's a durable fast good combat solo that I feel can contest like a boss and he has minior support for paladins. Also though no knock down yes please. I think you guys are crazy to write him off so early with out at least trying him. Does he fix paladins no but I think that's ok. I guess people are just going to split down the line of being happy with him as a solid solo or unhappy that he does little for paladins you already own. I don't think anyone thinks hes awful but people had varied expectations which mostly seemed reasonable. I don't think people are either "writing him off" or wanting him to be "OP". it's just a case of what you wanted him to do... strong solo vs help paladins. PP were not bothered about the help paladin bit so thats how the cookie crumbles.
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Post by macdaddy on Nov 3, 2017 14:19:52 GMT
I'm actually looking forward to see him on the table. He's a durable fast good combat solo that I feel can contest like a boss and he has minior support for paladins. Also though no knock down yes please. I think you guys are crazy to write him off so early with out at least trying him. Does he fix paladins no but I think that's ok. Righteous vengence from Villimon and a really beefy stat line plus the benefit of being a dragoon seem like a solid combat solo to me! Girded is OK but the dude hits pretty darn hard! Pow 16 Boosted lance and the shield and mount for busting chaff. He is also really hard to remove!
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Post by blydz on Nov 3, 2017 14:25:47 GMT
Yeah. Look at the Knight Exemplar Seneschal. Does he something for the KE ? Not. At. All. And still, he's a pretty good piece.
The fact is that PP has given the Champ. something for the other paladins : Girded. It's make me feel that they want to give him something, but not too much, nor nothing. He is in the mid range between hard hitter and though tank leader. Like they don't really know what to do with him for now. And we pay for it. (Yes... design space. I know)
He is a very good solo. Pretty though, and good damage. Remove Girded and it's established that he is here to kick some ass and take some bullets no more, no less.
But Girded in his cmd range, with SPD 8... why ?
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Post by chillychinaman on Nov 3, 2017 23:35:11 GMT
Played him in a match today, and I have to say, I think I've come around to the Paladin Dragoon. He's a strong missile in a theme that otherwise lacks that option. Also, 13/20 10 boxes then 13/18 5 boxes is pretty tough.
Still wish Leadership was for Retaliatory Strike or something. Since he plays like an "offensive" paladin, it would've been nice to double down on attacking abilities and let the future design space paladins pick up the defensive slack.
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
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Post by Provengreil on Nov 3, 2017 23:47:12 GMT
Food for thought gents - this guy will grant girded to any paladin unit that we get, if we ever get one. THAT could be pretty amazing. OK. with multiple cryx cids, no menoth cid in sight and exemplars as out most likely candidate whenever that DOES happen....when? and until then, why am I paying for girded on them? BTW, paladins are, by orders of magnitude, our smallest order. I am not expecting much more from them.
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Nov 3, 2017 23:51:44 GMT
Read what girded does x.O; now think about faithful masses... zealots that are immune to blast damage. Nicia and Allegiant of the Order of the Fist immune to blast damage.
You're not suppose to use his speed until the alpha turn. A strategic piece, taking him off the board is difficult because of his armor level, yet as long as he's on the board, early range engagements through artillery and powerful AoEs get nullified. Once you are close enough to engage, he is a perfect solo killer. This may be tossing him to the wind, but once all your infantry has made it up to the front of the board unscathed, he's already done his job. Use him as a strategic trade once he's knocked off his horse, as he still has the umph to do some damage...
Still, he's not worth his points. The basilisk krea from Skorne does nearly the same thing by giving access to force aura and only costs 7 while being a light warbeast.
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
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Post by Provengreil on Nov 4, 2017 1:48:01 GMT
Oh trust me, the biggest reason i wont be getting one immediately is that money is tight right now. I just reject that we should assume paladin units...ever, honestly, outside of possibly Durst2.
I love the paladin sub-theme and already favor them under harbinger. I'm mostly just waiting for the zealot buffs to look back into those lists.
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Post by chillychinaman on Nov 4, 2017 4:27:35 GMT
I don't know about others, I but I've never seen too many AoEs outside of the one Khador colossal. Clustering together is also asking for sprays which bypass many defenses in Mk3.
I think roadblock would've made more sense given the large base. Giving out SacPa to nearby non-caster warriors would also be cool given his stellar ARM.
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Post by c0deb1ue on Nov 4, 2017 6:26:01 GMT
I think if they made "girded" block blast and bounces/leaps... then maybe it would be something to write home about(and an interesting rule - though ?op) but presently he is also a large base DEF 13 model who transmits leaps directly to whoever he is B2B protecting... In a lot of games that would completely nullify the already very situational girded. I see a lot more bounces/leaps than AOEs these days
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demonic
Junior Strategist
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Post by demonic on Nov 4, 2017 23:14:54 GMT
*looks over at the spell obliteration* -.- if you are going to spam anything, protection from AoEs is a necessity, especially into casters who have the umph to clear out the masses with little trouble. You should expect artillery to be having a comeback as well, since themes are bringing back infantry spams. Depending on units with armor below 15 will soon be a hazard again, regardless of how high their defense is.
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Provengreil
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Post by Provengreil on Nov 5, 2017 12:14:12 GMT
*looks over at the spell obliteration* -.- if you are going to spam anything, protection from AoEs is a necessity, especially into casters who have the umph to clear out the masses with little trouble. You should expect artillery to be having a comeback as well, since themes are bringing back infantry spams. Depending on units with armor below 15 will soon be a hazard again, regardless of how high their defense is. The problem is that most of that should ahve happened already, but the only lists I consistently see artillery with are our own. What more, against them, Girded cannot help you. the infantry mulching we see locally is much more often of the multiple attacks and overtake variety.
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