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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jul 17, 2017 12:12:14 GMT
I'm pretty sure rowdy's being sarcastic. Well somebody has to complain here? Like 4 days ago mercs were Female Doging about how PP hates them and never wants to give them anything nice.
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jul 17, 2017 12:41:03 GMT
I'm pretty sure rowdy's being sarcastic. Well somebody has to complain here? Like 4 days ago mercs were Female Doging about how PP hates them and never wants to give them anything nice. (Pssst. Always remember to write [/Sarcasm] after a sarcastic post. Otherwise your statement won't work properly.) They sure were Female Doging. And it was not pleasant. I was really hoping to see some happy lil' mercs after the good news. This is a great foundation for a theme force.
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Post by mikethefish on Jul 17, 2017 18:02:16 GMT
Well somebody has to complain here? Like 4 days ago mercs were Female Doging about how PP hates them and never wants to give them anything nice. (Pssst. Always remember to write [/Sarcasm] after a sarcastic post. Otherwise your statement won't work properly.) They sure were Female Doging. And it was not pleasant. I was really hoping to see some happy lil' mercs after the good news. This is a great foundation for a theme force. With good reason, to be fair.
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gmonkey
Junior Strategist
I, for one, welcome our Infernal Overlords.
Posts: 313
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Post by gmonkey on Jul 18, 2017 18:36:36 GMT
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Post by Azuresun on Jul 18, 2017 21:36:06 GMT
Well somebody has to complain here? Like 4 days ago mercs were Female Doging about how PP hates them and never wants to give them anything nice. (Pssst. Always remember to write [/Sarcasm] after a sarcastic post. Otherwise your statement won't work properly.) They sure were Female Doging. And it was not pleasant. I was really hoping to see some happy lil' mercs after the good news. This is a great foundation for a theme force. I'm sure Dragon's posts being just as flamebait-y there as here had nothing to do with people getting exasperated. On the theme, new releases could improve this, but right now, the raw material just isn't that good. Precursors are Precursors, Devil Dogs are a great solo attached to a pricey unit with victim stats, and Thorn Gun Mages are 3pts each with ARM 11, one wound and no reliable in-faction way to activate Prowl. Choir on the battlegroup is exciting--finally, some jack buffing solos other than Thor--but has the problem that none of the listed casters are especially good at running multiple jacks compared to Protectorate casters such as Tristan2, Amon or Durst. Ashlynn wants models with decent defence values, Macbain has good single-target spells but runs out of focus too quickly and Constance is....what she's always been. It does make the Vlad1 Team Rocket match less of an auto-gg, so there is that. It's....decent, and thematic, and it's actually where I think all themes should be. Problem is, it's in a world of "take your already awesome list, sacrifice nothing, have 15-20 free points and special rules" themes.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jul 18, 2017 21:50:59 GMT
Thanks for picking up the pace for me mate! I knew somebody could do it! We don't know the whole details, and your already ready to complain (If there will be a CID, if there will be anything else, what kind of new casters). And I love already how getting sniper on a gun mage unit with two shots with and is just "Eh good and fluffy, not AMAZING or anything, where other things should be".
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jul 18, 2017 22:26:56 GMT
(Pssst. Always remember to write [/Sarcasm] after a sarcastic post. Otherwise your statement won't work properly.) They sure were Female Doging. And it was not pleasant. I was really hoping to see some happy lil' mercs after the good news. This is a great foundation for a theme force. I'm sure Dragon being just as smug, condescending and baiting there as he is being here had nothing to do with people getting exasperated. On the theme, new releases could improve this, but right now, the raw material just isn't that good. Precursors are Precursors, Devil Dogs are a great solo attached to a pricey unit with victim stats, and Thorn Gun Mages are 3pts each with ARM 11, one wound and no reliable in-faction way to activate Prowl. Choir on the battlegroup is exciting--finally, some jack buffing solos other than Thor--but has the problem that none of the listed casters are especially good at running multiple jacks compared to Protectorate casters such as Tristan2, Amon or Durst. Ashlynn wants models with decent defence values, Macbain has good single-target spells but runs out of focus too quickly and Constance is....what she's always been. It does make the Vlad1 Team Rocket match less of an auto-gg, so there is that. It's....decent, and thematic, and it's actually where I think all themes should be. Problem is, it's in a world of "take your already awesome list, sacrifice nothing, have 15-20 free points and special rules" themes. But what about the sniper benefit? 2 units of Thorns can easily kill a heavy's cortex each turn. With Ashlynn's feat, they all get pretty high defensive abilities. Gorman can make a cloud for a couple of them. And Gibbs gives anyone in his command bubble repo 3, so those Thorns should be able to get some kind of cover, and they can be 13" away from what they were shooting. Ragman and Gorman are available to buff damage up a bunch. Will this end the world? Nah. But the sniping power this list can bring is really impressive. Then there's the jacks in theme. With Battle, then Mangler goes from a 7.46% chance of killing a juggy, to 51.64%. You don't need casters who run jacks well when you have support that can buff them this much. And I get that Ashlynn and Blaize aren't great. But that's not really the theme's fault. I really don't see how this theme isn't already strong. There do need to be more units available from mercs, but for now this looks strong. Edit: and sniper on models with black penny is even better than noral. Almost killed a heavy, leaving it on 2 boxes? No problem. Plink. Plink. Dead. Second edit: I am dumb, and have forgotten that gun mages do not have marksman. They cannot scalpel out cortexes. However, the more I consider black penny on Taryn and Thorns, the more I realize it is the perfect way to weaken jacks on the way in, and then to finish off jacks who are nearly dead.
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Post by gobber on Jul 18, 2017 23:01:39 GMT
It's also worth pointing out that this theme gives access to Junior' Arcshield (macbain doublegalleon?); Durant's Fortify, even harder Gallant defskew via Jakes, etc etc
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Post by Azuresun on Jul 18, 2017 23:21:39 GMT
Thanks for picking up the pace for me mate! I knew somebody could do it! We don't know the whole details, and your already ready to complain (If there will be a CID, if there will be anything else, what kind of new casters). And I love already how getting sniper on a gun mage unit with two shots with and is just "Eh good and fluffy, not AMAZING or anything, where other things should be". Well, I gave you the benefit of the doubt once, but you seem to have no interest in honest discussion, given that you're ignoring things right there in the post you quoted. I'll repost them for the audience: "new releases could improve this"
"Choir on the battlegroup is exciting"
"it's actually where I think all themes should be"Yeah, wow, look at the seething, unreasonable hatred in that. Your only concern seems to be stirring, antagonising and getting in cheap little jibes to score internet points, and it's a waste of anybody's time to engage with you if your response is limited to "LULZ HATERZ". You....go off and slap yourself on the back about how you triumphed over those mean haters. I'll be here talking with the people who are discussing this honestly.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jul 18, 2017 23:35:54 GMT
Your only concern seems to be stirring, antagonising and getting in cheap little jibes to score internet points, and it's a waste of anybody's time to engage with you if your response is limited to "LULZ HATERZ". You....go off and slap yourself on the back about how you triumphed over those mean haters. I'll be here talking with the people who are discussing this honestly. Well, I apologize for dismissing your input, but I do stand by how there seems to be this never ending WINGE of "PP hates and doesn't love us!", how every action or inaction is personally made to be an insult at them, and no benefit is too great, no bonus too large. No matter what somethings always a problem. I'm not necessarily even in agreement with some of the changes, but I understand their origin, and I understand that much of them are by fan demand already, so I can at least see they're trying to cater to their audience. I was a freaking hater for all of MKII, but that was because I felt like their game design attitude was flawed, not that they have somekind of massive favoritism (Which they have a bit, but its not MASSIVE).
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Post by Azuresun on Jul 18, 2017 23:38:41 GMT
But what about the sniper benefit? 2 units of Thorns can easily kill a heavy's cortex each turn. With Ashlynn's feat, they all get pretty high defensive abilities. Gorman can make a cloud for a couple of them. And Gibbs gives anyone in his command bubble repo 3, so those Thorns should be able to get some kind of cover, and they can be 13" away from what they were shooting. Ragman and Gorman are available to buff damage up a bunch. Will this end the world? Nah. But the sniping power this list can bring is really impressive. Then there's the jacks in theme. With Battle, then Mangler goes from a 7.46% chance of killing a juggy, to 51.64%. You don't need casters who run jacks well when you have support that can buff them this much. And I get that Ashlynn and Blaize aren't great. But that's not really the theme's fault. I really don't see how this theme isn't already strong. There do need to be more units available from mercs, but for now this looks strong. Edit: and sniper on models with black penny is even better than noral. Almost killed a heavy, leaving it on 2 boxes? No problem. Plink. Plink. Dead. Sniper is good! It's really good! But the problem is RNG 10. Widowmakers can get away with having no durability, because RNG 14 is the best defensive stat in the game. From my experience with TGM, they do great once they're in range, but the problem is getting them there without blasts, e-leaps or boosted sprays (hi, Circle) costing you 3 points for every hit. Ragman and Gorman have the same problem--great once they get there, but getting them there is tough. Gibbs.....I was under the impression he was in the game as Stryker2's attachment, but maybe he can make them better. Choir is also good! I already said so, but I don't think they're quite as good as they are in Protectorate, who have powerful battlegroup-wide buffs that stack with the choir. I also think Cleansers could work well with Ashlynn, but I'll probably need to default to boring-but-practical Choir if I run this. It's not the theme's fault that a lot of the choices are meh, but it does illustrate how the faction needs more than a theme to play with the big boys. Look, ignore what the troll above said, I'm not a blind hater (more than anything, I'm just fed up with getting rolled by the skews and superthemes that other factions have), and there's good stuff in here. It's a decent, fluffy theme. But it's (probably, unless a high-ranked player sees a hidden gem, or there are finally some new releases that unlock potential) not the Merc equivalent of Ghost Fleet or Heavy Metal, and sadly, those have set the bar for competitive theme forces.
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Post by Mydnight on Jul 19, 2017 0:09:35 GMT
Sniper doesn't allow choosing column. Only does auto damage. Even if you bring Cygnar gunmages along in the Llael theme, they have widowmaker range of 14 but will mostly be relegated to infantry clearing duty. They can bring a marshalled jack though, but mercs sorely needs a multishot ranged jack.
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jul 19, 2017 0:29:32 GMT
Sniper doesn't allow choosing column. Only does auto damage. Even if you bring Cygnar gunmages along in the Llael theme, they have widowmaker range of 14 but will mostly be relegated to infantry clearing duty. They can bring a marshalled jack though, but mercs sorely needs a multishot ranged jack. I remembered that shortly after writing my post, and wrote an ammendment at the bottom. But don't discount the gun mages. They can put some damage onto enemy heavies before they arrive, making it way easier to take down. The same Mangler from my example goes from a 51.6% chance of killing a juggernaut chassis jack (the gold standard of resiliance) to an 80% chance if it has taken 6 damage. Thorn gun mages can apply that, and then repo 3 back with Gibbs to be 13" away, nearly the 14" of widowmakers. If they move into a forest, they get stealth. Or sit them behind a wall, or in the rubble you get to place at the beginning of the game. Even if the Thorns only apply a little damage to a heavy, and kill some infantry moving in, then they're doing great. And here's another thing. The Galleon with Battle has better ranged damage output than the Stormwall (although lower rat). It gets 2d3 pow 15 AOE 3s, with a pow 17 harpoon shot. That's powerful.
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jul 19, 2017 15:33:00 GMT
Was it mentioned what counts towards free solos in the Llael theme?
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Post by gobber on Jul 19, 2017 17:53:57 GMT
Units.
If the spoilers are slightly inaccurate, and Dr. Nick can in fact bring along steelhead halberdiers in theme, I definitely see this being interesting with Macbain...
Macbain Galleon Galleon Ragman Tinker Journeyman Warcaster Buccaneer Halberdiers
Macbain Galleon Galleon Ragman (free) Min Choir Anastasia Thorns Halberdiers
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