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Post by benjamini on Nov 9, 2018 0:01:02 GMT
Kayazy are pretty fantastic. Croe’s Cutthroats have their place, because Backstab is situationally a superb benefit with guns. But, yeah, Nyss Hunters & Boomhowler, those are relics. It took me much longer into MKIII than I care to admit before I learned that about Boomhowler... those guys were my go-to back in MKII. *sniff* How the mighty have fallen
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Post by benjamini on Nov 8, 2018 23:58:48 GMT
That's fair. While it might not seem fair at first to give you your two best themes, I do think that MOW and WGK are the right choices. The key is choosing the right casters to put you in a good spot without giving you Irusk 2 and two infantry themes. The good news there is that Malakov or the Strakovs could probably fill that niche just fine, or even Irusk 1 if he is not too much. I'm partial to swapping OW2 back in and Zerkova out for that slot but I can see that going either way. And I'm assuming that they will want to keep Sorscha 3 around. I guess the problem wasn't so much Jaws, it was more that the list of casters they gave us weren't really inclined to run it... I'd be happy to run Jaws if they ended up giving us the likes of Strakhov 1 or OW2 or something (I tried to avoid just jumping straight to the best casters for the theme , but I figure these two would be interesting to run in it) I hope AC sticks around, mostly because it's pretty fresh, and I am still enthusiastic about running it. In a perfect world for me, they'd get rid of Jaws, and give us either WGK or Wolves of Winter (I know, I know, it sucks... but we don't really do the def skew thing anymore, and it's probably the furthest theme from AC in terms of play style). That being said, if they do as you suggested and give us access to WGK AND OW2... my champions pairing is going to start looking quite a bit like my regular steamroller pairing... and I'm not sure how desirable that is to me personally.
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Post by benjamini on Nov 8, 2018 20:04:15 GMT
Just my take on this as somebody who basically just started the game: Whenever I lurked on this forum I always wondered why people insistantly tried to squeeze things like Nyss, Boomhowler and Co., Kayazy Assassins, Devil Doggos or Croe's into their lists. Whenever i saw that, I looked at their cards online and thought to myself... yeah these guys don't seem all that great, so what is it about them? Know I know the answer. They are relics of the past people are still attached to. At least partially correct. I never actually ran Nyss all that often in their heyday, what I was trying to do, was provide bodies (ideally bodies that could shoot and hit decently hard) in an otherwise jack heavy list. The price I paid for that was inefficiency. Kayazy Assassins, are models I don't particularly like to use that often. But I'd say they're more viable than some of the other units you listed. They can form a pretty good screen in themes that lack one, and are already in faction.
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Post by benjamini on Nov 8, 2018 19:07:39 GMT
I didn't mention her because WGK severely reduces her Merc choices, and I feel that Sylys is pretty much required for her in order to land Freezing Grip. I thought of Sorscha 1, and it's true that she runs most themes pretty okay... but ever since SotN came out I've felt pretty bad about playing her PERIOD. ...mind you there are a bunch of Trolls around here, mileage may vary.
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Post by benjamini on Nov 8, 2018 14:05:09 GMT
I just hope it's not Armored Corps and Jaws again for Khador!
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Post by benjamini on Nov 7, 2018 18:22:36 GMT
I've never had a particularly compelling reason to take Vlad 2 in either WGK or Jaws... I'm sure it COULD be done, and there are some neat tricks they can pull over... but not on the level of some of the other casters those themes can use.
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Post by benjamini on Nov 6, 2018 20:10:31 GMT
Looks like they are saving Sorscha0 for last, and the caster line up for champion will probably change before we can get her. If she stays as was in CID (considering she didn't change for the entire CID I don't see why she would change now) she will be a key piece in making Jaws list work. Because at the moment Jaws is very underwhelming and the caster line up for Champion is criminally bad for Jaws at the moment. Regarding the nyss hunters in the jaws list, I think I'd rather have two units of eliminators and a unit of widowmaker instead of the nyss, seems like more value for less points at this point. Which is weird, because it almost feels like this particular group of casters was selected under the assumption that we'd have access to her. I'm just worried now that for the next ADR Roster they'll be like... Lol Wolves of Winter and Legion of Steel, have fun!
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Post by benjamini on Nov 6, 2018 18:59:01 GMT
I've kind of given up on our second champion list with the current line up of caster. The nyss always feel overpriced every time I put them on the table. 19 points is expansive before even considering the points for Valachev. Surely it's better to have something than not have something? I don't know, I feel like I could make a few solid Jaws lists with the ADR Casters IF I had Sorscha0 at my disposal (and she keeps boundless charge)... but alas, PP appears to be taking their sweet time with her...
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Post by benjamini on Nov 6, 2018 17:34:25 GMT
Yikes. 23 points for the Nyss and Valachev is a hard pill to swallow. edit. I am kind of feeling that instead of the Nyss, would it not be more efficient to just take Yuri as a free solo, and either a max or two min units of Kossites? That also leaves you with enough points to potentially take a Manhunter or two. Maybe, Nyss get a heck of a lot more work done than Kossites though... but kossites and two manhunters, who knows!
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Post by benjamini on Nov 6, 2018 16:43:12 GMT
hocestbellumWell said, list building is only as stale as you make it. Heck, even within the confines of Vlad2 AC there's a number of different viable lists!
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Post by benjamini on Nov 6, 2018 14:03:35 GMT
Hey Guys,
So I've got a bit of a Champions problem these days, mostly that I'm not big on most of the available ADR Casters in Jaws. It was an issue in the last cycle, when Jaws and WGK were our most competitive themes (as AC had not yet dropped), but the requirement of taking either a single AC list, or bringing a Jaws list along for the ride seems... unsatisfactory... to me with the casters we have available. This will probably change when Sorscha 0 arrives, and we have more ways of giving Pathfinder to the likes of Butcher 1, but for now I've been experimenting...
Enter Nyss Hunters. I've been trying to make them work in Jaws of the Wolf on occasion since last year at SOO when I took them in an ill-advised Kozlov list in the Champions event. Lately I've been giving them a shot with Butcher 1 however, as I think he is a stronger caster than Kozlov. In either iteration, I have found them to be a bit of a mixed bag. They have a lot of rules that help on paper: Pathfinder, range 12 shooting, weapon masters (albeit low pow, but Fury is a handy buff)... but they are expensive as heck and it can be a hard sell to spend the 23 pts necessary to bring Valachev along. In my games with them they're in a bit of a weird place, where I can't point my finger at an particular area where they haven't done what I've asked them to in the end, but it's clear that they aren't really pulling their weight overall.
Has anyone else used them successfully lately? Any alternatives in the theme? Am I bonkers for even considering it?
For reference, here's what I've been doing:
Khador Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Jaws of the Wolf
[Butcher 1] Orsus Zoktavir, The Butcher of Khardov [+28] - Devastator [14] - Devastator [14] - Kodiak [13] - Kodiak [13] - Ruin [17] Greylord Forge Seer [0(4)] Greylord Forge Seer [4] Yuri the Axe [0(6)] Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (max) [19] - Koldun Kapitan Valachev [4] Kayazy Eliminators [5]
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Post by benjamini on Nov 6, 2018 13:30:58 GMT
Yeah. No new things = stale list building, meta is solved for us until we get another cid. Not necessarily, new releases for ANYBODY have the potential to produce lists that make use re-evaluate the lists we take. But I see your point, that being said, I disagree that we are entirely solved.
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Post by benjamini on Nov 6, 2018 13:28:19 GMT
michaelAye, he's got some issues. You have some interesting proposals for fixing those, but I'm sure there are other ways forward as well. For instance if they took MKII Butcher 2 and transplanted him into MKIII with little to no change... I'd be all over that, even though he still has survivability issues! Remember that NQ article a while back that was written in MKIII but seemed to refer to his MKII feat? Good times
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Post by benjamini on Nov 5, 2018 19:13:54 GMT
I'm probably reading more into it than is merited, I will admit. I tend to think of myself on as relatively low on the "Doom and Gloom Scale". I don't have any problem doing well in local events with Khador... and that is good enough for me for the time being .
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Post by benjamini on Nov 5, 2018 19:11:32 GMT
Oh, I came up with a really swell solution for Butcher2, and I didn’t even touch Arcane Dementia at all! But, yeah: the Gun Carriage isn’t half bad. I suggest that something needs improvement when players say “I still managed to win the game despite the fact that my warcaster was a handicap I had to overcome”, you know? I've read that thread, and didn't really have much to contribute beyond "Impervious Flesh sounds gross on him", which admittedly isn't the most helpful. So I've watching it to see how it shakes down. I might try to get a test if I find a willing opponent, but I'm mostly focusing my attention on trying to find a working Jaws list for a local Champions event... which... is proving challenging.
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