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Post by droopingpuppy on Oct 23, 2021 14:51:16 GMT
Juggernaut still feels weird at 13, but eh, whatever. Perhaps many people were forgot that it is SPD 4 for years.
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Post by The Snark Knight on Oct 23, 2021 16:46:36 GMT
I saw Faye on FB responding to a post where someone was grumbling about Harkevich; she said that they've gone for a very light touch on battlegroup casters because of the large number of warjack changes. They didn't think their level of playtesting would be sufficient to look at how all of that levels out, so they've left Harkevich and others alone and will keep an eye on them as the game moves forwards. I reached this conclusion when trying to figure out why Butcher1 was untouched when Butcher3 got an admittedly small buff. Not gonna lie, I think B1, V1, and K1 Jaws lists are all looking pretty good with the changes. I'd still bring V1/OW2/Strakhov1/Malakov2 before Harkevich if I wanted shooting 'jacks, but maybe Harkevich with Demolishers is worth revisiting? I dunno, my priority is going to be cramming 4 Devastators into a bunch of different Jaws lists and seeing who gets what out of it.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Oct 23, 2021 18:33:26 GMT
(Caveat: I would argue that the Mad Dog is worse now, and it was already terrible). Why is it worse now? It doesn't need to spend focus now for it's speed buff, so can run full speed without exploding, doesn't that make it better than before? I have this feeling that a Mad Dog might have value as a "back-up" jack for Strakhov: he's very sad if his battlegroup dies, so having a crappy but cheap and fast jack in his back pocket for last-ditch assassination attempts... sounds on paper like an idea worth thinking about? What about Kozlov? A fast jack with Fury might not be terrible with Jackhammer?
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Post by Havock on Oct 23, 2021 22:01:56 GMT
Because you have to put more focus on it to unlock the SPD bonus.
Regaeding Strakhov: if your opponent completely obliterates your primary vectors before you can pull the trigger, you probably have already lost.
Also very likely a terrible matchup if you get out-threatened and alpha'd like that.
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Post by droopingpuppy on Oct 24, 2021 0:20:38 GMT
If it were a beatstick then it would be nothing wrong, but Mad Dog is there for cannon fodder. Well, sure, at least it is bette than current version of Fleet, for you may keep two focus points, but it is still bad.
Sigh, although Mad Dog of the early days were bad, but what it needs was bring it to normal state, not the punitive nerf. Although I did hate some stuffs through my Warmachine experience, but I never, ever want a punitive nerf for what I hate. Even for my most hatred abominations, I think that all they deserve is cease to be a game breaking tool, not nerf to the ground. For I hate those models when I hate those, not my friends and the faction with those models, and I hate to see any models to be become useless because we play the game with our miniature, each assembled and painted manually, and you can't easily change these as if it were a PC game.
Although I do think that balancing Mad Dog would be hard....
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Post by Havock on Oct 24, 2021 3:44:19 GMT
The biggest problem is that they were quick to jump on that nerf, but some other completely egregious stuff has been left in place for years.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Oct 24, 2021 5:41:08 GMT
Because you have to put more focus on it to unlock the SPD bonus. Do you? I guess you mean for trampling? Right now you need to spend a focus to get the speed buff. So if you want to run or charge (assuming no free charge), you need one focus for the speed buff and one focus to run, after which you've spent two and might explode. Now you still need two, but you only spend one, so you don't explode - and if you're actually attacking you can make more attacks since you have more focus left. In case you're thinking that you now need three focus since you spend one two run so you need two left, PP have clarified that it doesn't work that way: if you have two focus as the start of your movement you can spend a focus to run and still get the speed boost. So I guess he's worse at trampling (something a lot of people didn't think he was good for to begin with), or I guess just walking 6" and not doing anything, but better at running and charging. Since trampling is of limited utility these days, I feel like it's a net positive? Regaeding Strakhov: if your opponent completely obliterates your primary vectors before you can pull the trigger, you probably have already lost. I dunno, for me his assassination tends to be a bit of a late-game thing; I'll use the feat for an alpha against my opponent's army if it looks good, but actually getting to his caster isn't just about distance, it's about finding a clear lane, which I find a little hard until later in the game when the lines have thinned a bit. But at that point I will probably have had to trade some of my jacks; having a 17 point jack hanging back all game is not great, having an 8 point jack hanging back is not so bad. Although I guess a Rager would be better; it can get some value while hanging back and gets more attacks when it actually goes in? I mean, it's probably just because I'm not a good player, but it feels like it might be good for my playstyle at least.
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Post by michael on Oct 24, 2021 13:03:04 GMT
What about Kozlov? A fast jack with Fury might not be terrible with Jackhammer? I think it depends. Personally, I want that MAT 7 and 16+ P+S if I’m casting Jackhammer. However, I suppose it depends on how much setup work you can do for the assassination run. Can you Ice Cage, or hit with the Decimator, or something else first? I guess it is an option, just not one I’d reach for easily.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Oct 24, 2021 14:28:58 GMT
What about Kozlov? A fast jack with Fury might not be terrible with Jackhammer? I think it depends. Personally, I want that MAT 7 and 16+ P+S if I’m casting Jackhammer. However, I suppose it depends on how much setup work you can do for the assassination run. Can you Ice Cage, or hit with the Decimator, or something else first? I guess it is an option, just not one I’d reach for easily. I didn't mean for an assassination run specifically; Kozlov is not as blessed with speed buffs as some other casters, but he has melee damage buffs. So a cheap warjack with greater melee threat range than any other jack in our stable might not be a bad way to start the piece trade?
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Post by Havock on Oct 24, 2021 17:07:31 GMT
Kozlov's gameplan is less alpha and more "opponent kills dudes, already hard-hitting, relatively accurate melee jacks hit harder and more accurate in return."
And if you face a gunline he can walk everything up faster and under an ARM buff.
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Post by michael on Oct 24, 2021 17:34:39 GMT
I tend to play Kozlov fairly conservatively. Usually I wait to feat until either I can jam a bunch of models into my opponent's lines first, or wait until we're already engaged and I can use surprise SPD 6 jacks or SPD 8+ infantry to get into devious places, and tank incredibly well because my opponent has to deal with ARM 22+ jacks that he's too close to charge.
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Post by Havock on Oct 24, 2021 18:53:29 GMT
I tend to play Kozlov fairly conservatively. Usually I wait to feat until either I can jam a bunch of models into my opponent's lines first, or wait until we're already engaged and I can use surprise SPD 6 jacks or SPD 8+ infantry to get into devious places, and tank incredibly well because my opponent has to deal with ARM 22+ jacks that he's too close to charge. Yeah, he's a counterpuncher, most of the time at least.
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Post by michael on Oct 25, 2021 20:44:38 GMT
Hey while we’re at it: do the newly-available Thamarite Advocates do anything interesting for the Zerkovas in any themes? I guess you could end up with a heck of a lot of Empowers in Wolves of Winter, if you bring 2x Forge Seers, 2x Koldun Lords, and (whatever the FA is now) of Thamarite Advocates… right?
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Post by hocestbellum on Oct 26, 2021 11:32:35 GMT
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Post by michael on Oct 26, 2021 13:26:50 GMT
Just FYI, both your options are identical. Zerkova is a model in a battlegroup controlled by a Thamarite no matter which way you slice it.
Zerkova2 has always needed one extra focus to live the dream during feat turn. Hmm…
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