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Post by Havock on Oct 22, 2021 15:55:17 GMT
It doesn't answer gear checks the way targetting flare did though. Well, I dunno. It's just not what I had in mind when I asked for Mat7 Spriggans. True but it was corner case anyway. And again, with blast immunity becoming a rare thing the solution might simply be "your battlegroup starts with Behemoth and two (13 pt!) Destroyers. Carpet bombing infantry is possible and viable again. Hell, if you play AC with Malakov2 you can bring that BG and, like, fire 7 AOE 4's a turn if you really need to. That's pretty good, add a unit of Bombardiers to the mix (because they are nuts with backstabbing) and you have a kit that really raises the question of whether you wish to play infantry into that.
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Post by michael on Oct 22, 2021 18:30:05 GMT
I am mildly intrigued by the possibilities of fielding Assault Kommandos with a Winter Guard Artillery Kapitan and Kovnik Joe.
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Post by MacGuffin on Oct 22, 2021 18:57:24 GMT
Carpet bombing infantry is possible and viable again. This is an insufficiently discussed point. Many of the blasts available to Khador are pretty high-powered (unstable chassis jacks' explosions, Behemoth's boosted bombards, Devastator's Rain of Death, etc.) and are therefore more likely to take out the kind of single-wound infantry that previously were untouchable, even with the +4 from blast resistance (e.g., rocketmen). Along with the shield-wall change, I think this is going to very impactful for Khador list building. Overall I think Khador really benefitted from the update.
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Post by michael on Oct 22, 2021 19:27:29 GMT
Of all the factions, I feel like Khador got the most out of that blast immunity change. Boy oh boy…!
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Post by droopingpuppy on Oct 22, 2021 20:41:03 GMT
Yeah. We all know Khadoran jacks are not very accurate and it unlikely to land a hit even with two shots so I think that it is a weird change. Although it may viewed as cheap for simply put the AOE but we need to see the price tag of Spriggan before argue about that. If you can put an AOE to remove these by a 4 point solo with RNG 14 it surely a negative issue, but Spriggan is a heavy and it has SPD 4 and RNG 10.... I was referring to de-stealthing a model so you miss by default, but yeah: if the model's DEF is high enough that you want to land a flare on it, RAT 4 is not reliable even with a boost. They haven't listed a point change for the Spriggan so I imagine it hasn't changed. Oops, I forgot to add that if it were RAT 6 AND also has True Sight it may worthwhile and able to utilize Flare, although still it is a straight nerf. But... will you really want to remove stealth by spend 16 points and make an attack roll? I don't get it. Such points can expect some fun. Also it is worth noting that sometimes you cannot target anyone(you want) at all, such as Haley3+Trencher Infantry, High Reclaimer1, or Northkin Shaman.
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Post by Havock on Oct 22, 2021 23:22:51 GMT
Of all the factions, I feel like Khador got the most out of that blast immunity change. Boy oh boy…! We are most hit by the pts reduction though, a lot of stuff got cheaper compared to our stuff.
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Post by michael on Oct 23, 2021 2:18:30 GMT
Yeah, but now those ARM 11 goofballs might actually die when we carpet bomb them! :-P
Also, Overwatch on the Trollkin Sluggers is cute, both in terms of the name of the ability and its effect.
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Post by Blargaliscious on Oct 23, 2021 2:38:16 GMT
1) Khador won this dynamic update! Wow!!! 2) AK dudes went from (yawn) "Yeah, I might finish my second squad and weapon attachments for a "Strakhov Army" to (Marine drill instructor) "Dig those frackers out NOW and start painting!" 3) The warjack changes is going to make me look at all of the Khador warjacks like a serial killer reviewing his knife collection. "How can I kill thee? Let me count the ways..." 4) Here is the change that I am shocked nobody is talking about: Kossites
Guys, Kossites just gained Backstab. You know, an extra die for attack rolls and an extra die for damage rolls for attacks that originate in the back arc. I'm not saying that the Rampaging Kossite Horde is going to win all battles -but- I think they certainly got a lot more interesting. Combine this with the change to the Kayazy Assassins and Kommander Andy getting Discombobulate and I think I see an army for Jaws of the Wolf.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Oct 23, 2021 3:52:38 GMT
But... will you really want to remove stealth by spend 16 points and make an attack roll? He has Dual Attack so in theory trying to de-stealth a model won't cost you your combat action. In theory.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Oct 23, 2021 3:55:03 GMT
We are most hit by the pts reduction though, a lot of stuff got cheaper compared to our stuff. I haven't really looked at the other factions, but a lot of our stuff got cheaper. A lot of important UAs and solos went down by one or even two points each. Are you saying other factions got even larger point reductions?
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Post by Havock on Oct 23, 2021 4:39:12 GMT
We are most hit by the pts reduction though, a lot of stuff got cheaper compared to our stuff. I haven't really looked at the other factions, but a lot of our stuff got cheaper. A lot of important UAs and solos went down by one or even two points each. Are you saying other factions got even larger point reductions? A lot of Warbeasts went down. Not so much warjack though (except for the expensive lemons everybody had and you never saw)
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Post by Soul Samurai on Oct 23, 2021 10:36:02 GMT
A lot of Warbeasts went down. Not so much warjack though (except for the expensive lemons everybody had and you never saw) The Kodiak and Destroyer dropped a point, Beast09 and the Grolar dropped 2 to name a few. Meanwhile Ruin, the Decimator, and clamjacks stayed the same cost but got much better. Were they not seeing play? The Rager dropped to 9 points, that's got to be approaching "worth taking on S0" territory, right? Especially since the 2 point downgrade from the cheapest non-Berserker-chassis jack can potentially get you a solo or UA now.
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Post by Havock on Oct 23, 2021 11:20:15 GMT
Yeah it's not bad,mostly just the beasts. Guess they needed it.
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Post by hocestbellum on Oct 23, 2021 11:26:32 GMT
The only Khador jacks that didn't get cheaper or get buffed were the Berzerker, the Juggernaut, and the Marauder. (Caveat: I would argue that the Mad Dog is worse now, and it was already terrible).
It's been a while since I scoured the tournament stats, but generally speaking you would rarely see Decimator, Demolisher, Mad Dogs or Grolars from the non-character jacks. I could definitely see a Decimator as a tech piece now, and the Grolar at 16 becomes tempting. All the points drops mean that there's probably a lot more interesting combos for battlegroups.
I saw Faye on FB responding to a post where someone was grumbling about Harkevich; she said that they've gone for a very light touch on battlegroup casters because of the large number of warjack changes. They didn't think their level of playtesting would be sufficient to look at how all of that levels out, so they've left Harkevich and others alone and will keep an eye on them as the game moves forwards.
Having had a bit more time to think about the changes, I was a bit surprised to find that I was no more interested in playing a full game than I was before. But I'm really interested in playing Brawlmachine, where I think this loosens restrictions enough to be invigorating without letting things off the leash
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Post by michael on Oct 23, 2021 13:52:12 GMT
I am pleased by the change to Kossites as well. Backstab at least gives them some actual teeth on the table, instead of existing merely as a psychological advantage armed with low-accuracy wet noodles. (I have used Kossites a lot, probably more than any of you. I had a very long track record on the old forums of pointing out the scenario advantages of Ambush and a disposable unit of dudes. But they have always been terrible at actually killing things!) Also, as a frequent user of PC 16 Decimators even before the 2018 Armored Corps point drop, and as a frequent user of Kodiaks (and the Grolar whenever I could afford it), I just say: wow. Kodiaks at 12 points? Oh boy! Grolar has always been super killy but 18 points was a tough pill to swallow. I think 16 is just about right. Juggernaut still feels weird at 13, but eh, whatever.
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