|
Post by schostoppa1 on Apr 26, 2017 20:02:55 GMT
imho nothing to write home about. 15pts still. 8" bubble of +2ARM vs ranged/magic attacks. bumped to 24 boxes.
|
|
Kavrae
Junior Strategist
Posts: 182
|
Post by Kavrae on Apr 26, 2017 20:26:16 GMT
It's nothing major, but overall I'm happy with it.
4 extra boxes, while not making it a tank by any means, is still a welcome freebie Keeping it at 15pts sticks with our mantra of keeping things cheap and spammable
Trading +2 incorporeal ARM for +2 Ranged/Magic ARM on undead models is a straight buff. How often did you have an incorporeal model get hit in melee while it's incorporeal and have 2 ARM make a difference? Ranged, definitely, but not melee. Even if it is 1" less AOE. This is just so much more versatile. Under theme, it allows you to buff the ARM of the Revenants, not just the wraiths. Sure, it won't turn them into durable brutes, but it will protect them from blasts, help against electro-leaps, and many other forms of mass infantry removal. This also gives them some additional use outside of Ghost Fleet. I could throw it in with Terminus and his thrall swarm to make them that much more difficult to deal with. Small bonus - I believe this buff applies to itself while also allowing you to run two of them for 22 ARM vs ranged. Please correct me if this is wrong.
EDIT: quick numbers check. Revenants getting zapped by POW 10s goes from a 97% kill rate to 83% kill rate. It's not much, but it's enough to help ensure one or two per unit survive to keep resurrecting.
The one thing that really helped convince me to use one was realizing that, unlike many factions, I'm not taking this thing as an independent Warjack to smash stuff. I'm taking it as a mobile utility platform.
|
|
|
Post by schostoppa1 on Apr 26, 2017 20:52:49 GMT
Its also takes away the blast immunity of our incorporeal models. I wouldnt say straight buff. 😛
Also if you ran 2 of them it would cap at ARM20 since its the same.ability.
|
|
|
Post by yellowbeard on Apr 26, 2017 21:33:45 GMT
Am I wrong in thinking that Electro Leaps are not considered ranged attacks? So the +2 arm vs Ranged and Magical attacks does NOT help against electro leaps.
|
|
|
Post by schostoppa1 on Apr 26, 2017 21:42:07 GMT
also correct. same with trick shots and the like.
|
|
Kavrae
Junior Strategist
Posts: 182
|
Post by Kavrae on Apr 26, 2017 21:52:20 GMT
Well this makes me sad. So on the negatives, we have the loss of blast immunity, non-stacking ability (though this is still a buff since it applies to itself), and still vulnerable to Cygnaran troop removal.
|
|
Grimolf
Junior Strategist
Posts: 246
|
Post by Grimolf on Apr 26, 2017 21:54:59 GMT
The +2 ARM will work with our many undead casters, however. ARM 20 Terminus will be fun.
|
|
|
Post by schostoppa1 on Apr 26, 2017 22:02:32 GMT
The +2 ARM will work with our many undead casters, however. ARM 20 Terminus will be fun. very true. especially after feat goodness. it would be hilarious. although currently imo the 2 best casters for it is skarre1 and denny1. both living. lol.
|
|
|
Post by schostoppa1 on Apr 26, 2017 22:16:20 GMT
Just had a though. What about bane riders with the WE? arm20 on the way. dark shroud. they can leap frog eachother.
|
|
Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
|
Post by Deller on Apr 27, 2017 0:34:02 GMT
The loss of blast immunity make the WE horrible for Ghost Fleet. It was the main part the Blackbane's cared about. Honestly it's going to depend on whether or not the Engine is available in the Bane Theme. Banes are the one undead unit archetype that really benefit from an armor buff. Revenants & Thralls have garbage armor that even with the Unhallowed buff + another armor buff like Death Ward they still die trivially to pow 10s. Banes are the Undead models that actually have descent base armor and can really benefit from an in faction armor buff that stacks with upkeep spells. If the Engine isn't in the bane theme I'm probably not going to bother with it as it'll still probably only be good in the Skarre1 incorporeal spam gimmick which I'm really not too fond of in 2 list masters environments.
|
|
Kavrae
Junior Strategist
Posts: 182
|
Post by Kavrae on Apr 27, 2017 0:57:34 GMT
Revenants & Thralls have garbage armor that even with the Unhallowed buff + another armor buff like Death Ward they still die trivially to pow 10s. Banes are the Undead models that actually have descent base armor and can really benefit from an in faction armor buff that stacks with upkeep spells. Well, as I said above, we go from an average of all 10 dying, to an average of 8 dying. Throw in Death Ward or any other ARM +2 (do we have many others?) and it's 6 dead instead of 10. It makes a difference when all we need is one left to keep up the resurrection. I will agree though, that losing blast resistance on the Blackbanes sucks and the armor DOES do more on Banes.
|
|
Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
|
Post by Deller on Apr 27, 2017 1:09:01 GMT
Revenants & Thralls have garbage armor that even with the Unhallowed buff + another armor buff like Death Ward they still die trivially to pow 10s. Banes are the Undead models that actually have descent base armor and can really benefit from an in faction armor buff that stacks with upkeep spells. Well, as I said above, we go from an average of all 10 dying, to an average of 8 dying. Throw in Death Ward or any other ARM +2 (do we have many others?) and it's 6 dead instead of 10. It makes a difference when all we need is one left to keep up the resurrection. I will agree though, that losing blast resistance on the Blackbanes sucks and the armor DOES do more on Banes. Yea but that's an average off 8 dying vs 10 dying to what? 10 shots? Okay, so instead of just putting 10 shots into a unit it takes 12 shots to kill it. Needing 2-3 more pow 10 shots to wipe a full Revenant unit is not worth 15 points. Where the Engine is worth 15 points is buffing Banes from armor 15 & 16 to 17 & 18. Also unless I'm reading this wrong the Wraith Engine now benefits from its own armor buff so you don't need to bring two to buff each other.
|
|
npe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 221
|
Post by npe on Apr 27, 2017 1:20:32 GMT
Well, as I said above, we go from an average of all 10 dying, to an average of 8 dying. Throw in Death Ward or any other ARM +2 (do we have many others?) and it's 6 dead instead of 10. It makes a difference when all we need is one left to keep up the resurrection. I will agree though, that losing blast resistance on the Blackbanes sucks and the armor DOES do more on Banes. Yea but that's an average off 8 dying vs 10 dying to what? 10 shots? Okay, so instead of just putting 10 shots into a unit it takes 12 shots to kill it. Needing 2-3 more pow 10 shots to wipe a full Revenant unit is not worth 15 points. Where the Engine is worth 15 points is buffing Banes from armor 15 & 16 to 17 & 18. Also unless I'm reading this wrong the Wraith Engine now benefits from its own armor buff so you don't need to bring two to buff each other. It is with Terminus. Buffing the revenants and terminus means that you need 10 pow 10s to kill 1 revenant assuming rat 7, pow 10. (72% to hit, 83% to kill, 66% of no tough + 3 coming back on average).
|
|
|
Post by Gamingdevil on Apr 27, 2017 8:13:43 GMT
I'm also a little sad about the loss of blast immunity, as well as the smaller area. But, I guess they still wanted boosted blasts to have some effect against our infantry hordes. ARM 14 is pretty survivable against unboosted blasts, so there's that.
|
|
|
Post by tiberius on Apr 27, 2017 13:14:33 GMT
Well I am not sure what to think, at 15 pts and in theme, perhaps but compared to what other people were getting with their battle engines (38 - 40 boxes?) I am pretty let down. So we have the least amount of boxes, still the weakest in melee despite it being a melee engine, and lost the biggest buff that would have made it really desirable. +2 ARM probably wont be very significant relegated to vs ranged and magic attacks for undead only. If it protected warjacks, maybe. Then it would basically be a poor man's krielstone. But it needed more boxes than what it got. What was it? 24? And my trollkin warwagon rolls out with 38? Haha.
|
|