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Post by Soul Samurai on Feb 11, 2021 7:58:21 GMT
Random thought: list building is a little stale these days, so let's approach it from a different angle. Let's try to build some colourful lists. Stuff like "lists with as many stealth models as possible" or "lists with only solos and no units" or "lists with as many character models as possible". Let's say:
1. They have to be themeless; let's try something different from the usual themes. 2. The primary concern is to fit the idea; you should take a worse model that fits the idea rather than a better one that doesn't. 3. Being competitive or just fun to play is the secondary objective. 4. You can choose any points level you like.
So here's one to start:
JOHN CENA! [Strakhov 1] Kommander Oleg Strakhov [+28] - Grolar [18] - Kodiak [13] Underboss Vizkoya [4] Widowmaker Marksman [4] Croe's Cutthroats (max) [16] Kayazy Assassins (max) [15] Kayazy Eliminators [5]
The Kodiak and Grolar do not have Stealth but they do have clouds; the alternative is I guess some Clamjacks that don't have stealth but aren't really worth shooting at most of the time. This is a 50 point list (well, 47 I guess?), you could go up to 75 with more Eliminators, stealthy solos, and/or Vigilants. I don't imagine that it plays very well, but I'd give it a go in casual games.
Anyone?
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olaf
Junior Strategist
Posts: 101
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Post by olaf on Feb 11, 2021 12:36:57 GMT
The grolar doesn't have clouds I don't think.
Not sure about the point limits, I'd assume the majority of games would either be brawlmachine (25 pts with a bunch of other limitations) or 75 pts.
For a 50 point stealth theme I dunno what I'd do really... Also if you're 3 points under anyway at least give yourself a guard dog.
Why don't we have a jack with stealth? Prowl at least. Is camo beyond our engineering? Ok granted there is the loud steam engine with a trail of smoke on their backs, I suppose that might make it more difficult. But if a bit of mist can hide that, why not some appropriate paint?
Didn't the old witch use to be able to give people prowl? Oh well, I suppose there is strak. But OW is never used since she's really bad so let's use her.
I guess this would be my initial idea:
Old Witch 1 50 pts no theme stealth theme Guard Dog Scrapjack Kodiak
Widowmaker Marksman Kell Bailoch Harlowe Holdemhigh Eiryss1
Croes Cutthroats Max Eliminators Eliminators
Everything except the dog and jacks has either prowl or stealth. Hell looking at it scrapjack actually do have prowl and that is with a steam engine so it does work.
Probably it'd be better to replace eiryss1 with a ternion unit so you could have freely available clouds. But they wouldn't have stealth.
Also anything that can ignore stealth (which is pretty common by now) can shoot all this stuff into pieces.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Feb 11, 2021 13:03:44 GMT
That's strange, why did I think the Grolar had Vent Steam? Must be going senile.
I didn't take the doggo because it doesn't have stealth, meaning it breaks the theme. I was thinking about taking just Behemoth to use up Strakhov's warjack points and casting Occultation on him (Strakhov would have to hide behind a forest or something - that's being steatlhy right?).
You could also run Adult Andy as he can give himself Prowl and a cloud. Not sure if there's any advantage in doing so?
OK, take 2, this time it's 72 points and is just pure Khador:
JOHN CENA! [Strakhov 1] Kommander Oleg Strakhov [+28] - Kodiak [13] - Kodiak [13] Widowmaker Marksman [4] Kayazy Assassins (max) [15] - Kayazy Assassin Underboss [4] Kayazy Assassins (max) [15] - Kayazy Assassin Underboss [4] Kayazy Eliminators [5] Kayazy Eliminators [5] Kossite Woodsmen (max) [10] Kossite Woodsmen (max) [10]
Kodiaks for clouds. Other than that it was just clicking on everything I could find in Khador that had Stealth or Prowl. It's... pretty terrible. I wouldn't run it in real life as I don't really like to run duplicates of anything (except maybe Destroyers); rather I'd sub out the duplicates for some stealthy Mercs:
[Strakhov 1] Kommander Oleg Strakhov [+28] - Kodiak [13] - Kodiak [13] Glyn Cormier, Illuminated One [5] Harlan Versh, Illuminated One [4] Widowmaker Marksman [4] Croe's Cutthroats (max) [16] Kayazy Assassins (max) [15] - Kayazy Assassin Underboss [4] Kayazy Eliminators [5] Kossite Woodsmen (max) [10] Order of Illumination Vigilants (max) [10]
I always found it a bit strange that Harlan Versh had Stealth; for some reason "Morrowans" and "Stealth" don't really mix in my mind? But it seems PP thinks it makes sense as they went and doubled-down on the sneaky Morrowans.
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olaf
Junior Strategist
Posts: 101
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Post by olaf on Feb 11, 2021 15:26:34 GMT
Strak2 can give himself stealth as well but... Strak2 is a bit... he can help speed up his army and he can help it survive but he can't really help it hit or kill stuff. Which is kind of the stuff we really want.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Feb 11, 2021 16:43:49 GMT
Strak 2 is a good call actually. Less warjack points means less non-stealth models. And can you think of a unit you'd care less about losing to Last Stand than Kossites?
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olaf
Junior Strategist
Posts: 101
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Post by olaf on Feb 11, 2021 18:34:36 GMT
Rager. It's going to explode anyway (it totes will), it has 3 initials, and it lets it do some work aside from shield guard. Plus the model looks better than kossites. And if you put last stand on them it becomes difficult to ambush with them.
I guess last stand would let them actually hit and do damage.
I do sorta want to put last stand at a colossal, not so much because it's sane but just to say I did (and that it helped me win obviously).
We should have a character colossal with stealth. The model would be painted grey like stone, and some trees would be tied to it so that it looks like a rocky hill.
Quicken also protects only against ranged attacks which isn't quite as good if you already have stealth... though there is a lot of stuff in the game now that ignores stealth. The best stealth unit for quicken is probably the Order Vigilants (with Valachev). Valachev wouldn't have stealth but we can stick him in the back and pretend. Also he makes them faster so I'd be willing to overlook the lacking stealth part.
We don't have a huge amount of in faction units with a high def, everything is like 12 or 13. It's the eliminators and widowmaker scouts neither which particularly need quicken. The best in faction target for it is probably the outriders(SPD ELEVEN!), uhlans or maybe pikemen. None of which has stealth.
As for the +2 arm unmovable spell probably stick it on a devastator and relive the arm 25 glory days.
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Ok, attempt at strak 2 list.
Strak2
Rager
Devastator
Elims
Elims
Order of Illumination Vigilants w/ Valachev
Glyn Cormier, Illuminated One
Harlan Vesh, Illuminated One
Widowmaker Marksman
Yuri The Hunter
Harlowe Holdemhigh
Alten Ashley (honestly just threw him in)
Manhunter
Manhunter
Gorman Di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist
Ayiana & Holt (aren't these two a blast from the past)
You could probably push the morrow theme even harder if you wanted. Anyway as said, quicken goes on the order vigilants, arm buff goes on devastator. Rest of the army is on their own. Gorman and Ayiana helps debuff arm... in theory. Everything sans jacks either has stealth or conditional stealth. (Strak2 battle plan, A&H spell, Alten w prowl and Harlow w prowl)
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Post by Havock on Feb 11, 2021 19:26:46 GMT
Honestly just saying no themes is just cosplaying 2014 and, well, taking out our janky stuff. I mean, look at WooF and what it does with clamjacks.
Good? Probably not very. Hilarious? Probably.
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Post by michael on Feb 11, 2021 21:24:38 GMT
I dare you to make Unbound lists.
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Post by Havock on Feb 11, 2021 21:52:16 GMT
I dare you to make Unbound lists. 400 points of unbound? How many casters and in what sections is it cut up? I am not aware of the rules because I never played it.
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olaf
Junior Strategist
Posts: 101
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Post by olaf on Feb 13, 2021 8:05:35 GMT
I don't know how to unbound either.
But if we're doing personal challenges my challenge would be: Maximize the number of Huge Bases.
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Post by hocestbellum on Feb 14, 2021 17:08:44 GMT
How many Archons can you put in a list? Could go with Sorscha's Angels?
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Post by michael on Feb 14, 2021 17:59:46 GMT
How many Archons can you put in a list? Could go with Sorscha's Angels? The most you can get in-theme is two in Wolves of Winter, I think. That or two Menite archons in Warriors of the Old Faith. Otherwise, out of theme, I guess you could double up on Morrowan and Thamarite archons. I guess you could do the same in Flame in the Darkness too.
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Post by Havock on Feb 14, 2021 22:59:47 GMT
I think the biggest issue with that most-stealth thing is that there is no reason not to just run it in Jaws other than "I don't want to run themes because".
Although I'd be inclined to run it with Irusk2 because stealth boat + no blast damage + tough + no-kd is a nice combo.
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Feb 15, 2021 14:56:42 GMT
The maximum nomber is 6 archons out of theme. 2 Voids, 2 morrowan, 2 thamarite.
I think the sextuple archon schtick is best left to minions though.
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Post by michael on Feb 15, 2021 17:05:05 GMT
The maximum nomber is 6 archons out of theme. 2 Voids, 2 morrowan, 2 thamarite. I think the sextuple archon schtick is best left to minions though. Void Archons do not work for Khador.
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