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Post by branflakes14 on May 2, 2017 20:15:08 GMT
It's been an awful long time since I've had Makeda3 assassinated. I think you're missing the point of the list. Also, the Tyrant Commander doesn't really negate knockdown since you tend to die when knocked down, and the Willbreaker can't move models.
The point of Makeda3 is that if your opponent's faction can't deal with a freight train with an 11" threat range, you can force them off zones. Take Amon for example. Crusaders have a 10" threat range under him, so Makeda can charge in, destroy one with relative ease (especially with Puppet Master), then Sprint 8" away thanks to the Tyrant Commander's movement buff. She's now over 10" away from any other Crusader, thus completely safe from any kind of crackback. It's a similar deal with Karn. Charge in at 4d6-3, boost the damage on your second attack for another 4d6-3, then Sidestep backwards and Fate Walker your way out of there, leaving a crippled warjack behind. Rinse and repeat.
It's a similar story against gunlines. Pop Force Aura, Shield Guard the first hit onto an Exalted Guard, and survive the turn with ease because your caster is 17/20 against shooting.
Trying to brick up with an Agonizer and tank a zone with armour is pointless with a caster like her since she has nothing to contribute to a brick. If the Sentry made you think that, I can tell you it's mainly there to be a BIG annoyance, and Retaliatory Strike on Makeda3 is surprisingly useful. Remember, Puppet Master lasts for a round and she still gets Battle Driven if you transfer, so it's a MAT8 PS17+3d6 hit that can be rerolled if fluffed. She's our version of Butcher3. Much less threat range to assassinate with, but way more ability to grind a game out. The entire list (barring Karn) is there to help her use her yoyo potential as a zoning tool against factions that can't deal with her threat range.
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Post by dessert hydra on May 3, 2017 14:20:31 GMT
I've yet to run out Mak3 in this edition, but I like your thinking branflakes14... my only gripe with her still is that the threat extender is limited to her. Your always likely to eat the alpha from fast lists. To that end a smattering of fast light beasts for your opponent to chew through first might help. - Grievous wounds on a cannoneer early game to put some hurt into something key from potentially 22 away. - Brute to keep her upright and moving... I know she already has 2 shield guard but the animus is so key in keeping her def 15 or 17 under aura - Krea must have for your beast list, also don't forget paralyze late game to lock out key pieces - Legends not beasts but they have the tools to get up field and cause a nuisance without your lock babysitting them ... actually they might be good baby sitters for the Makada herself She's seems fun but struggling to justify her as a tourney caster until we get some tasty heavy metal type theme...
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Post by branflakes14 on May 3, 2017 22:19:52 GMT
I've heard stories of people having success at a high Steamroller level with Makeda3+Mammoth for the reason you gave for the Cannoneer. And Counterblast on Makeda is fun. The Brute is something I considered and even used for a while, but standing a Sentry in front of Makeda has a similar effect to no knockdown. Heck, against someone like Kreoss1 it's actually better.
But yeah I don't think she's particularly competitive, I just like the idea of a caster that can murder heavies while being semi-viable.
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cassus
Junior Strategist
Posts: 156
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Post by cassus on May 4, 2017 0:50:56 GMT
But yeah I don't think she's particularly competitive, I just like the idea of a caster that can murder heavies while being semi-viable. What do you think it would take to make her more competitive? The fact she does almost nothing for the rest of her army is a pretty big hurdle to overcome. I really wish I knew a way to make her good, she is one of my favorite models in the whole faction.
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on May 4, 2017 3:44:22 GMT
Making Makeda3 viable...
4 more life boxes making Vortex of Destruction her command or control range instead of melee range. make hand of death count for model/unit instead of just model having her feat include her instead of just her battlegroup
other than that she just needs a Cyclops that can give her intuition instead of shield guard or future sight x.x *glares menacingly at the Cyclops brute*
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cassus
Junior Strategist
Posts: 156
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Post by cassus on May 4, 2017 11:37:20 GMT
Making Makeda3 viable... 4 more life boxes making Vortex of Destruction her command or control range instead of melee range. make hand of death count for model/unit instead of just model having her feat include her instead of just her battlegroup other than that she just needs a Cyclops that can give her intuition instead of shield guard or future sight x.x *glares menacingly at the Cyclops brute* Someone correct me if I'm wrong but warlocks/warcastors count as part of their own battlegroup so she is effected by her feat.
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didder
Junior Strategist
Posts: 166
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Post by didder on May 4, 2017 13:04:21 GMT
I'm thinking of Chiron with her. Counterblast on her is great, and he's cheaper than a mammoth of course, though not necessarily better.
Sprays though, with vortex of destruction sound very neat. Since sprays ignore the target in melee penalty, so spraying down something Makeda is in melee with means boosted damage rolls. A pair of drakes could go here as well.
Also, I was thinking of a trio Ancestral Guardians with her. They are slow, so I'd recommend spending souls for movement most turns, but their defensive strikes are a far better deterrent when Vortex of Destruction is boosting their damage. If you're playing Makeda far forward, anything coming in is going to have to remove ancestral guardians and then deal with her counterblast hit.
Slingers also seem like they might be very important to her, since she does not want to be boosting to hit if she doesn't have to. They might need the Dakar before it'll work, but rat 6 flares on 10 cheap bodies can get the flare reliably even if you have to use all 10 on one target.
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cassus
Junior Strategist
Posts: 156
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Post by cassus on May 6, 2017 12:35:58 GMT
I'm not sure that slingers beat taking a unit of Karax with her. The slingers are 6 more points if you include the dakar in there to make sure they hit something and they die if they ever get hit by just about anything 13/12 are some pretty sad defensive stats.
The defensive strike idea is cool but that is a massive points investment for something your opponent can play around pretty easily, especially if they are attacking with something that has 2' reach as well. Personally I am planning to run a pair of cyclopes brutes with her and have them do nothing but body block, with their animus up they are very hard to move. Also it gives Makeda 4 shield guards to protect her, granted you want you opponent to shoot your exalted guardians if possible to trigger battle driven for you.
Now Chiron is an interesting choice, a very points intensive one but interesting. So on Mak3's feat turn when something in her battle group destroys enemy models you can give Mak3 fury or take it off something in her battle group. Chiron's spray could let you put a nice stack of fury back on Makeda to keep her safe after her feat turn rampage if you fail to assassinate the enemy castor. Also counter blast is pretty awesome in both situations you described.
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cassus
Junior Strategist
Posts: 156
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Post by cassus on May 6, 2017 13:06:20 GMT
Also put hand of death on Chiron to make that spray have grievous wounds. Pretty scary and could really help out with assassination runs by having Chiron apply grievous wounds to the enemy castor while Makeda keeps Vortex of destruction up.
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Post by branflakes14 on May 7, 2017 23:05:45 GMT
making Vortex of Destruction her command or control range instead of melee range. You want to turn a super solo into the single best support model in the entire game?
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skormedlover87
Junior Strategist
Desperately searching for days off to game...
Posts: 517
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Makeda3
May 8, 2017 1:39:32 GMT
via mobile
Post by skormedlover87 on May 8, 2017 1:39:32 GMT
Very little of that comment made much sense. Also I don't want Rayvn to have THAT version of the spell.
As for how BigMak could get better... More boxes would be nice. Picking up defensive/retributive strike on Makeda and the ladies would be great. Seeing a bunch of infantry across the table is sort of the biggy though. Maybe VoD going to additional die instead of boosted. Picking up Flashing Blade would be great for her. Mostly she needs to reliably see at least half the enemy army made out of infantry.
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on May 8, 2017 4:57:27 GMT
She does need a bit of love, but not that much. Any one of these would probably do:
1) Regain the old Fate Walker. 2) Gain a non-upkeep spell that is basically cost2/3 Rhythm of War. 3) Gain Carnage, or even better that ability Kaya1 has where she just grants her beasts +2 MAT. 4) Gain some Field Marshal, maybe Repo(3).
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cassus
Junior Strategist
Posts: 156
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Post by cassus on May 8, 2017 10:40:49 GMT
I was able to get a game in with her yesterday at my local store VS Tanith.
Mak3 -Krea -Chiron -Karn -Gladiator -Archidon Willbreaker Soulward Min beasthandlers Tyrant commander Max Karax
I ended up loosing but the game did not feel overly one sided. Some things I learned from it, the affliction spell on Karax lets manikins just melt them. Chiron is really good with Mak3, his pow15 spray threatening to kill anything that charges mak3 makes people really think twice about charging her and gives mak3 easy access to counterblast. Mak3 can not run as hot as other castors because she plays so far forward I found myself always camping 1 or 2 fury on her which made it hard to buy/boast a lot of attacks with my beasts, so I'm planning on reworking my list to add another group of beast handlers. The Krea's paralysis can be a very relevant tool to help hit high def beasts, in my gave vs Tanith I unfortunately kept my Krea closer to Karn than Mak3 so it couldn't paralyze things for Mak3.
The next Mak3 list I am going to run is going to look like this:
Mak3 -Krea -Chiron -Karn -Gladiator -Archidon Min beast handlers Min beast handlers Tyrant commander Max Karax Swamp gobber bellows crew
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Post by branflakes14 on May 8, 2017 11:09:52 GMT
Mostly she needs to reliably see at least half the enemy army made out of infantry. I disagree with this completely. Makeda3 and Karn with Hand of Death love to chew through heavies and bounce back to safety. It's much easier and safer to pull points out of your opponent's list if it's concentrated in one point. Trying to focus on surfing with her feat never really ends well. It's better used as a way to manage fury on a turn you want to really go in. The main issue is it takes time to grind your opponent down, but if you can find or make the time I think she's perfectly fine as she is. People who think she needs support spells aren't playing her properly and should switch to Makeda1/2 or something honestly.
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granor
Junior Strategist
Posts: 353
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Makeda3
May 8, 2017 12:27:00 GMT
via mobile
Post by granor on May 8, 2017 12:27:00 GMT
So on Mak3's feat turn when something in her battle group destroys enemy models you can give Mak3 fury or take it off something in her battle group. Chiron's spray could let you put a nice stack of fury back on Makeda to keep her safe after her feat turn rampage if you fail to assassinate the enemy castor. I hate to be the kill joy but her fear doesn't work that way. It gives a fury per attack that kills st least one model. Attacks that kill multiple models still only give or take away one fury Hopefully this did affect your game you played
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