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Post by smoothcriminal on Mar 7, 2019 0:20:49 GMT
Not much to discuss here. This shouldn't be a thing.
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Post by michael on Mar 7, 2019 3:24:13 GMT
I feel like I should be happy, because we finally got the "no-theme theme" that people have been tossing about for the last 18 months, but on the other hand... Ugh. That's too much stuff to digest.
It's "Khador but not Khador", and I don't know how I feel about that.
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Post by welshhoppo on Mar 7, 2019 6:02:47 GMT
LOL. You can use the princess to dark seduction a model to go over and hit the argus to trigger vengenance ;-) THAT will be the ultimate NPE.
That works (I think) because the damage would have taken place in the "last round" - right?
That just doesn't work. Getting damaged during your own turn does nothing for vengeance. Also since you are controling the model at the time it doesn't count as an enemy model. The model you should be looking at to break Butcher3 is Mordecai. Also you can casually take Sorscha0 in heart of darkness at pretty much no cost and minimal theme limitations. Vengeance triggers for one round. So yes it does work. You can trigger vengeance on your next turn by taking a free strike this turn.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Mar 7, 2019 10:06:07 GMT
I'm having trouble following this stuff. So Infernal rules are available now? Are they available outside of the CID forums? Is this crazy new theme force ANY casters, or just specific ones?
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Post by smoothcriminal on Mar 7, 2019 10:07:01 GMT
As far as power goes I don't think there's anything here that improves Khador models much. Having a second list of say Sloan or Nemo3 is what I would maybe like because Khador can't skew with ranged jacks by itself. Having a list of Khador+Infernal infantry skew and another of Cygnar/CG ranged jack skew is something new.
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Mar 7, 2019 10:13:18 GMT
I'm looking at a Vlad1 WGK style list but with lots more magic abilities and some infantry that can actually hold its own in melee, and Zerkova2 with a lot of funky new spell casters.
Not seen anything totally OTT so far, but haven't delved into it much.
Out of curiosity, what are the specific combos people are saying are totally broken?
Cheers, Dave
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Post by hocestbellum on Mar 7, 2019 10:38:55 GMT
I'm having trouble following this stuff. So Infernal rules are available now? Are they available outside of the CID forums? Is this crazy new theme force ANY casters, or just specific ones? Any Khador, Cygnar, or Crucible Guard caster, plus their battlegroup, two units, and three solos. On top of that you can take all the infernals stuff, and everything counts as an infernal. You still get free stuff for every 20 non-warjack points. A lot of the Infernal solos are pretty mental, so everyone is looking at taking strong armies and then boosting them with, for example, Rebuke on a stick, army wide tactician, a -5 range bubble, a solo that detonates people... and so on and so forth. There's loads of odd combos. OW1 with the Direct Spirits guy, OW2 with the -5 RNG guy, Z2 with all the magic attack solos. And that's just the out-of-Faction combinations. Even in a pure infernals army, someone figured out a way to fire off 25 Dark Fires through 8 different Arc Nodes as an assassination run. I appreciate that this was always going to be hard to balance, but there seem to have been a lot of early oversights.
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Post by P'tit Nico on Mar 7, 2019 10:48:34 GMT
That just doesn't work. Getting damaged during your own turn does nothing for vengeance. Also since you are controling the model at the time it doesn't count as an enemy model. The model you should be looking at to break Butcher3 is Mordecai. Also you can casually take Sorscha0 in heart of darkness at pretty much no cost and minimal theme limitations. It doesn't say it is your model in the wording for dark seduction. "Take control of target enemy non-warcaster, non-warlock warrior model. You can immediately make a full advance with that enemy model followed by a basic attack, then Dark Seduction expires. The enemy model cannot be targeted by free strikes during this movement. Dark Seduction can be cast only once per activation. A model can be affected by Dark Seduction only once per turn." Control of Enemy Models, page 61: Some special rules can allow a player to take temporary or permanent control of his opponent’s models. If your opponent takes control of one of your models during play, it becomes an enemy model for as long as it is under your opponent’s control. If you take control of one of your opponent’s models, it is friendly for as long as it is under your control.
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Mar 7, 2019 10:59:02 GMT
There's loads of odd combos. OW1 with the Direct Spirits guy, OW2 with the -5 RNG guy, Z2 with all the magic attack solos. And that's just the out-of-Faction combinations. Even in a pure infernals army, someone figured out a way to fire off 25 Dark Fires through 8 different Arc Nodes as an assassination run What I see is: Yay OW1 is becoming more and more playable through our new models and a new faction. That's awesome! OW2 can shutdown some shooting really hard. She wouldn't be the first caster to be basically immune to ranged assassination and sprays are still and issue for her like before. Have written up a Zerkova2 + magic solos list. Looks fun! Basically like her current lists but less reliant on cold attacks. I'd like to see the 25 Dark Fires list. What is the set up to get all that to happen? Where do models have to be placed? Is it even a remotely realistic list? It feels like a lot of jumping to conclusions right now. Given it's CiD so that's always going to happen, but this seems to be another level. There's currently 4 battle reports on the CiD site, none in Hearts of Darkness. Best way to highlight something is "broken" is to play some games with it. I'm not saying it's not broken or very strong or whatever, but I'm yet to see anything more than snap judgments from people. Cheers, Dave
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Post by Soul Samurai on Mar 7, 2019 10:59:25 GMT
Any Khador, Cygnar, or Crucible Guard caster, plus their battlegroup, two units, and three solos. On top of that you can take all the infernals stuff, and everything counts as an infernal. You still get free stuff for every 20 non-warjack points. I read that it's non-character warjacks; I assume the usual bond still bypasses this, so Strakhov can take Torch etc?
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Post by P'tit Nico on Mar 7, 2019 11:03:02 GMT
Any Khador, Cygnar, or Crucible Guard caster, plus their battlegroup, two units, and three solos. On top of that you can take all the infernals stuff, and everything counts as an infernal. You still get free stuff for every 20 non-warjack points. I read that it's non-character warjacks; I assume the usual bond still bypasses this, so Strakhov can take Torch etc? Yes, the usual rule for character jacks with bonds still works here.
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Mar 7, 2019 11:30:17 GMT
Wait, the Old Witch1 thing doesn't even work. The solo in question, Lord Roget, needs to be attached to a friendly infernal master. The theme doesn't even have any infernal masters in it, so you can't take him with Old Witch.
Cheers, Dave
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Post by hocestbellum on Mar 7, 2019 11:51:18 GMT
Wait, the Old Witch1 thing doesn't even work. The solo in question, Lord Roget, needs to be attached to a friendly infernal master. The theme doesn't even have any infernal masters in it, so you can't take him with Old Witch. Cheers, Dave Oh, I thought Regna counted. My bad
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Post by auraco on Mar 7, 2019 12:23:08 GMT
I'm looking at a Vlad1 WGK style list but with lots more magic abilities and some infantry that can actually hold its own in melee, and Zerkova2 with a lot of funky new spell casters. Not seen anything totally OTT so far, but haven't delved into it much. Out of curiosity, what are the specific combos people are saying are totally broken? Cheers, Dave Mordecai and Valin Hauke with pretty much any khador army that can pick and chose models from any theme on top of the infernal stuff seems broken to me. Butcher3 can take Ruin and Sorscha0 on top of Mordecai and Valin Hauke, one or two koldun lords and maybe an adjunct if you only go for one koldun lord. The Shadow insidious plan gives an extra 5'' threat range to butcher3 and Butcher3 can be sloppy with his placement since mordecai has tactician so you won't have any trouble walking through your models. On top of Long shadows you can take the super shield guard to make sure Butcher3 is entirely safe from shooting. Appart from Butcher3, I think this Vlad2 list is pretty outreageous too: [Vladimir 2] Vladimir Tzepesci, the Dark Champion [+27] - Destroyer [14] - Juggernaut [13] Koldun Lord [4] Kovnik Apprentice Kratikoff [4] - Juggernaut [13] Mordecai, Master of Arms [0(5)] Umbral Guardian [0(6)] Umbral Guardian [0(6)] Valin Hauke, The Fallen Knight [7] Greylord Outriders (max) [17] Howlers (max) [15] Howlers (max) [15]
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Post by borderprince on Mar 7, 2019 12:51:23 GMT
Does OW2 know her plan with the Grymkin has failed so badly that she's working for the Infernals now?
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