shiver
Junior Strategist
Posts: 150
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Post by shiver on Dec 24, 2018 20:18:14 GMT
... Bottom line, you can't get angry about something that you don't give a shit about. [ emphasis mine -EHL] Maybe some of those bitter clingers, those people who "won't be happy" are actually hoping that PP does come full circle, admit they Firetrucked up, and start taking steps to grow the game again. ... This is very astute, shiver. Despite my current disappointment, I for one will remind myself to praise new, corrective steps by PP when they are taken. (C'mon, new fluff!) Order of importance. PP is so Firetrucking disconnected they think an art book and a single campaign book will right the ship. Unless that book comes with revelation about new campaign forces, New box deals, and new narrative campaigns geared towards introducing new players, it's an awesome attempt at fixing a problem, but it doesn't address the largest problem. Prioritize, Prioritize, Prioritize We dont need new fluff right now as bad as we need a desperately redesigned demo day, JML rules, and intro sets for new players. Yes, I'm happy we have a new story coming forward, even if it is an advertisement for internals, snd I'm excited for the campaign, and may be able to get a few to play it with me, but we dont need that as much as we need mechanisms for introdicing new players. I'm glad we have an art book, circle orboros art is freaking amazing, I'm looking forward to it, but it doesnt fix the hemmoraghing players part. And this, this is why people like me get so damn frustrated with them. How disconnected can they be? How much of a cash grab do they need to do before they start fixing the problem? And crowd funded? Really? This isnt a start up.
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Post by cainuslupus on Dec 24, 2018 22:12:05 GMT
This is very astute, shiver. Despite my current disappointment, I for one will remind myself to praise new, corrective steps by PP when they are taken. (C'mon, new fluff!) Order of importance. PP is so Firetrucking disconnected they think an art book and a single campaign book will right the ship. Unless that book comes with revelation about new campaign forces, New box deals, and new narrative campaigns geared towards introducing new players, it's an awesome attempt at fixing a problem, but it doesn't address the largest problem. Prioritize, Prioritize, Prioritize We dont need new fluff right now as bad as we need a desperately redesigned demo day, JML rules, and intro sets for new players. Yes, I'm happy we have a new story coming forward, even if it is an advertisement for internals, snd I'm excited for the campaign, and may be able to get a few to play it with me, but we dont need that as much as we need mechanisms for introdicing new players. I'm glad we have an art book, circle orboros art is freaking amazing, I'm looking forward to it, but it doesnt fix the hemmoraghing players part. And this, this is why people like me get so damn frustrated with them. How disconnected can they be? How much of a cash grab do they need to do before they start fixing the problem? And crowd funded? Really? This isnt a start up. They need to start somewhere. Campaign, new pressgangers-like program, shop friendly approach, less crunch & creep - it will take time to fix the mess MK3 is. Whole 2019 will be not enough to fix this.
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Post by michael on Dec 26, 2018 5:10:19 GMT
When was the last time one of you folks actually gave a demo to a new player? Or, have all your local potential new players been driven off by ceaseless griping from salty old veterans?
Pronouncing from on high that Privateer needs to design a better Journeyman League is great and all, but when was the last time you took the time and effort to drum up support and run one?
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Dec 26, 2018 7:14:19 GMT
This is very astute, shiver. Despite my current disappointment, I for one will remind myself to praise new, corrective steps by PP when they are taken. (C'mon, new fluff!) Order of importance. PP is so Firetrucking disconnected they think an art book and a single campaign book will right the ship. Unless that book comes with revelation about new campaign forces, New box deals, and new narrative campaigns geared towards introducing new players, it's an awesome attempt at fixing a problem, but it doesn't address the largest problem. Prioritize, Prioritize, Prioritize We dont need new fluff right now as bad as we need a desperately redesigned demo day, JML rules, and intro sets for new players. Yes, I'm happy we have a new story coming forward, even if it is an advertisement for internals, snd I'm excited for the campaign, and may be able to get a few to play it with me, but we dont need that as much as we need mechanisms for introdicing new players. I'm glad we have an art book, circle orboros art is freaking amazing, I'm looking forward to it, but it doesnt fix the hemmoraghing players part. And this, this is why people like me get so damn frustrated with them. How disconnected can they be? How much of a cash grab do they need to do before they start fixing the problem? And crowd funded? Really? This isnt a start up. it is a very wonderful and also good thing dat there is so many folks dat knows exactly how to runs a miniature company dat makes teh monies on this here message board. we should open a consultancy that tells dem wat to do and they can pay us to tell them!! quick! delete all ur posts befor dey see em!
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Post by michael on Dec 26, 2018 14:15:34 GMT
it is a very wonderful and also good thing dat there is so many folks dat knows exactly how to runs a miniature company dat makes teh monies on this here message board. we should open a consultancy that tells dem wat to do and they can pay us to tell them!! quick! delete all ur posts befor dey see em! Man, didn’t you know? Forget universities or professional associations. Everybody with all the knowledge required to flawlessly master anything lurk on message boards. It is truly the world’s greatest untapped resource.
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shiver
Junior Strategist
Posts: 150
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Post by shiver on Dec 27, 2018 7:18:02 GMT
Order of importance. PP is so Firetrucking disconnected they think an art book and a single campaign book will right the ship. Unless that book comes with revelation about new campaign forces, New box deals, and new narrative campaigns geared towards introducing new players, it's an awesome attempt at fixing a problem, but it doesn't address the largest problem. Prioritize, Prioritize, Prioritize We dont need new fluff right now as bad as we need a desperately redesigned demo day, JML rules, and intro sets for new players. Yes, I'm happy we have a new story coming forward, even if it is an advertisement for internals, snd I'm excited for the campaign, and may be able to get a few to play it with me, but we dont need that as much as we need mechanisms for introdicing new players. I'm glad we have an art book, circle orboros art is freaking amazing, I'm looking forward to it, but it doesnt fix the hemmoraghing players part. And this, this is why people like me get so damn frustrated with them. How disconnected can they be? How much of a cash grab do they need to do before they start fixing the problem? And crowd funded? Really? This isnt a start up. it is a very wonderful and also good thing dat there is so many folks dat knows exactly how to runs a miniature company dat makes teh monies on this here message board. we should open a consultancy that tells dem wat to do and they can pay us to tell them!! quick! delete all ur posts befor dey see em! it is a very wonderful and also good thing dat there is so many folks dat knows exactly how to runs a miniature company dat makes teh monies on this here message board. we should open a consultancy that tells dem wat to do and they can pay us to tell them!! quick! delete all ur posts befor dey see em! Man, didn’t you know? Forget universities or professional associations. Everybody with all the knowledge required to flawlessly master anything lurk on message boards. It is truly the world’s greatest untapped resource. OMG, you two are just too edgy! what will I ever do with such cutting and witty commentary at my inability to understand a basic, expressed need of the community? How many new players do you two have in your areas now? (Don't tell me, you will likely just lie to make yourselves either sound good or to simply just be contrarian about it.) Then look at everyone else that is posting here. The number one concern you can see posted anywhere is the lack of new players and the difficulty of getting new players in. So, While I do not claim to have all of the answers, I do feel it a reasonable response to say that we do not need a new art book. I think the game will continue to grow or decline at its current rate with or without it. We likely need less fluff for right now (though the story is a major part of the game and needs to be revived) and something based on how to get new people into the game. Now, of course, you two can make all the sarcastic comments you want, but everywhere I see a common need is getting new players in.
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Post by netdragon on Dec 27, 2018 9:53:22 GMT
it is a very wonderful and also good thing dat there is so many folks dat knows exactly how to runs a miniature company dat makes teh monies on this here message board. we should open a consultancy that tells dem wat to do and they can pay us to tell them!! quick! delete all ur posts befor dey see em! Man, didn’t you know? Forget universities or professional associations. Everybody with all the knowledge required to flawlessly master anything lurk on message boards. It is truly the world’s greatest untapped resource.
Or maybe some of us have actually studied this thing called "marketing" and "bussines administration", or even maybe work in such fields and have something to say about a company that we wanted really hard to do better than it is doing...
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Post by michael on Dec 27, 2018 15:29:44 GMT
Don’t assume you are the only person with knowledge on a subject. Considering that none of us are privy to Privateer’s pertinent internal information that would inform marketing decisions, perhaps all this speculation is rather meaningless?
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Post by michael on Dec 27, 2018 15:34:45 GMT
...(Don't tell me, you will likely just lie to make yourselves either sound good or to simply just be contrarian about it.) .... This response makes me positively giddy, but I’m going to pass on it. Shoe, this one is all yours, if you’d like!
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Dec 27, 2018 15:36:02 GMT
Man, didn’t you know? Forget universities or professional associations. Everybody with all the knowledge required to flawlessly master anything lurk on message boards. It is truly the world’s greatest untapped resource.
Or maybe some of us have actually studied this thing called "marketing" and "bussines administration", or even maybe work in such fields and have something to say about a company that we wanted really hard to do better than it is doing...
i looked and u was not one of teh folks dat was making professional "bussines administration" recommendashions on this her e thread dealy but if u'd like to dats okay i guess. but me thinks that pp might not be interested in advice for how to grow dey company from people who cant even grow dey local meta with all they marketing and bidness acumen...
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Dec 27, 2018 15:42:35 GMT
...(Don't tell me, you will likely just lie to make yourselves either sound good or to simply just be contrarian about it.) .... This response makes me positively giddy, but I’m going to pass on it. Shoe, this one is all yours, if you’d like! shoe is not capitalized
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Post by michael on Dec 27, 2018 16:20:18 GMT
....or is it? DUH DUH DUUUUUH!
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Post by mcdermott on Dec 28, 2018 2:25:15 GMT
Man, didn’t you know? Forget universities or professional associations. Everybody with all the knowledge required to flawlessly master anything lurk on message boards. It is truly the world’s greatest untapped resource.
Or maybe some of us have actually studied this thing called "marketing" and "bussines administration", or even maybe work in such fields and have something to say about a company that we wanted really hard to do better than it is doing...
Ah yes, the softest of soft sciences.
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Post by frumiousbandersnatch on Dec 28, 2018 6:21:28 GMT
When was the last time one of you folks actually gave a demo to a new player? Or, have all your local potential new players been driven off by ceaseless griping from salty old veterans? Pronouncing from on high that Privateer needs to design a better Journeyman League is great and all, but when was the last time you took the time and effort to drum up support and run one? What new players? There are none. Zero. Not a single prospective player of the game. My LGS no longer stocks Warmachine and Hordes. There is not a single Warmachine/Hordes product on the shelves. Not a single poster on the wall or in the window. Nothing. They flash fired all their stock a long time ago and made the decision to no longer stock it as they couldn't sell a thing and they can hardly get what the veterans wanted from distributors, anyway. I'll still special order some of the new releases from my LGS to support them and because I like the game, but when I come in to meet a friend to have a throwdown every week or so I don't get any looks of interest or questions about the game. Just verbal jeers and mocking from the 40k players the table over about how we're here again playing "that dead game". Not that it bothers me as the "I only play dead games" has kind of become a running joke in the scene, but there couldn't be less interest in the game. I would gladly run demos or battlebox games for new players. When Mk2 was first released and I was younger and still working for my LGS I ran many demos for new players both on and off the clock, representing my store and just as a fan of the game. Never as Press Ganger, I never had the privilege of being one. It was a decent group of people who went on to start armies and become serious players that I was lucky enough to give the first taste of the game to. Things could not be more different now, unfortunately. Of course I'm older, too, and much busier than I was in 2010/2011, but I'd still be overjoyed to see any new interest in the game in my community and would gladly schedule a demo for someone new if there was even one. Time was you could walk in and find WarmaHordes being played on any given night. There would be multiple tables of pickup games no matter what. Now it's literally me and one or two other personal friends I can rope in for a game now and then. I was never even a tournament player, in almost a decade of being involved with the game I attended one actual tournament ever (though once it was released I always played pickup games with steamroller rules. It's the best way to play imo.) so even our "hardcore crowd" dried up. You can sneer and look down your nose at everyone all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that there are real problems with the game and with the company and there are people out there who are disappointed by this. I'm not losing any sleep over it, nor shedding any tears, but it does bum me out when I see the state to which my hobby and community has crumbled. And it's cool, I have a plethora of games to choose from and tons of stuff to do with my time, but WarmaHordes was always my favorite. I've never come close to getting the experience of what it felt like to be involved with the game and building the community several years ago and also, while some come close, I haven't yet gotten into a wargame that beats Warmachine in pure quality (as a game first).
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shiver
Junior Strategist
Posts: 150
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Post by shiver on Dec 28, 2018 8:45:36 GMT
When was the last time one of you folks actually gave a demo to a new player? Or, have all your local potential new players been driven off by ceaseless griping from salty old veterans? Pronouncing from on high that Privateer needs to design a better Journeyman League is great and all, but when was the last time you took the time and effort to drum up support and run one? I run demo days when they can be scheduled. I reach out to older players in an attempt to win them back. I reach out to store owners to try to drum up some support. I've spent a significant amount of time and energy recently attempting to revitalize my local community. It has been met with very poor public reception. Even when I remove myself and check with others stores in surrounding areas, they are experiencing the same thing. I collaborate with them to see if I can try new things. For the stores that still have product on their shelves, this has hurt them. I'm actually trying to help. The last time I engaged in these activities was last weekend, but please, tell me what I'm not doing, im listening. Also, be douchier about it too. I am not the only one. Several others across multiple media channels have expressed this concern. All you two have done is acuse me of demanding "from on high" and being an armchair expert. I will freely admit, I dont have all of the answers, but I sure as hell know I'm not alone in this situation, and clearly you two can add nothing more than just being a douche because someone has a descenting opinion and is actually concerned about what they are seeing.
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