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Post by sand20go on Dec 31, 2018 3:41:26 GMT
Yeah, let this thread die. Also, in summary: be a cool human being, and when somebody says “I think I’ll do X”, rather than gleefully slamming down your hand and declaring “Gotcha!”, instead say “You know, that unit has Y, so that won’t work”, or “If you do X, remember that I can do Z. Are you sure you want to do that?” Why? Because both players will have a more pleasant experience that way. So just be cool, people. While I agree with the sentiment, your summary is incorrect. “I think I’ll do X” is not what happened +1. Though to be fair I am not sure my opponent would have chimed in to say what the effect of POSSIBLY doing X would have been. Again, his plan was for me to make the error and give out the order to the DC since if the shocks go first they would likely (dice) have killed the crabbit and the demo corp would have eaten it. Indeed, should I have chosen a DIFFERENT order of activation he would have been forced to announce that wailing precluded shield wall and I would have noted the importance of killing the crabbit. As Juris points out, this is ultimately "on me" (ergo the second part of the sentence). That doesn't obviate the issue that as far as a game that requires several hundred $$ in investment and 2-3 hours a game the example shows just how brutally punishing a single mistake in the game can be (cause again, in respect to "planning" it was going swimmingly up to that point) - and why such a game likely has a pretty hard cap on its growth potential once people playing at a "clean" level understand just how brutal it can be.
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Post by dirtyharrypotter on Dec 31, 2018 8:17:20 GMT
Im curious, was that your opponents plan all along (or ones deployed), or did the thought came ones cornered and desperate? If the later, it might not have been much of a plan but still better then nothing and a clever use of the situation.
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Post by sand20go on Dec 31, 2018 17:12:28 GMT
Im curious, was that your opponents plan all along (or ones deployed), or did the thought came ones cornered and desperate? If the later, it might not have been much of a plan but still better then nothing and a clever use of the situation. Not sure but I would guess on the fly. A challenge for Child vs. Kozlov is board space if Grymkin doesn't win the starting roll. The lines will be set DEEP on his side of the board so as long as you can set up multiple vectors of attack he is in trouble because he can only play an arcana a turn and he has to start worrying a bit about scenario. With JUST the arcana he could shut down the MoW OR the Jugger but not both and with Fury either the Demos or the Jugger are fully capable of one rounding a S&M even under the buffs. That starts the piece trading in an advantagous place and probably forces Child herself to commit to take out the Jugger. Depending on resources, she may not have the transfers left to subsequently weather the counterattack.
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on Dec 31, 2018 19:43:01 GMT
While I agree with the sentiment, your summary is incorrect. “I think I’ll do X” is not what happened +1. Though to be fair I am not sure my opponent would have chimed in to say what the effect of POSSIBLY doing X would have been. Again, his plan was for me to make the error and give out the order to the DC since if the shocks go first they would likely (dice) have killed the crabbit and the demo corp would have eaten it. Indeed, should I have chosen a DIFFERENT order of activation he would have been forced to announce that wailing precluded shield wall and I would have noted the importance of killing the crabbit. As Juris points out, this is ultimately "on me" (ergo the second part of the sentence). That doesn't obviate the issue that as far as a game that requires several hundred $$ in investment and 2-3 hours a game the example shows just how brutally punishing a single mistake in the game can be (cause again, in respect to "planning" it was going swimmingly up to that point) - and why such a game likely has a pretty hard cap on its growth potential once people playing at a "clean" level understand just how brutal it can be. There are two ways to look at this (extremely high skill-cap game). First, you can recognize that you will never achieve ultimate mastery of the game and despair. Second, you can realize that you will have room to always grow stronger, and never reach the point where you cannot improve any further. This perpetual room for progression, for me, is a point of celebration. One can look to the trite (but appropriate) comparison of chess and checkers. Checkers was mathematically solved in 2007; it's literally no longer a contest (it is a guaranteed draw with perfect play from both players). Are you interested in playing a game where, at some point, you no longer have critical choices to make and you either win (because your opponent was not great) or you draw? The equivalent in table top gaming would be one where you just roll dice and see what happens. It's okay if the answer is yes ( many people prefer that type of game). However, I doubt that would be your answer. From what I know about you, the challenge and the room for perpetual progression and greater mastery are what you like most about this game. It is worth some self-reflection to analyze where you fall in this continuum. If you truly aren't interested in the competitive aspect of Warmachine, then realizing that will lead you to greater happiness in gaming (this doesn't mean quitting the game, and we could elaborate in a different discussion). If you do actually enjoy that aspect of the game, then an attitude shift (in how you perceive your losses and victories) may be all it takes to enjoy the fact that you lost because of a mistake that you made; because you won't make that same mistake next time, which means that you are stronger now.
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Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Lanz on Jan 3, 2019 11:32:42 GMT
On the one hand, 'gotcha' wins accomplish nothing for either player, and any player who not only tries to win on one, but will actually force the issue even when the other player spots it, is just a poor quality of player overall.
On the other hand, while this may specifically not have been the best example, it is absolutely true that WMH is a game of multiple layers of combos and counters, and a single missed step, or forgotten rule or slight mis-measurement can easily and immediately either lose you the game outright, or put you at such a massive disadvantage that it might as well be over. You have to be pretty drilled in your own list's mechanics and the mechanics of your opponent to be able to keep all the rules, threat ranges and synergies in mind, while also still being able to formulate strategies and play your opponent.
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Post by Havock on Jan 3, 2019 14:44:38 GMT
Did your opponent mark things clearly?
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Post by sand20go on Jan 3, 2019 19:15:23 GMT
Did your opponent mark things clearly? A "W" on a token near the clump of models. It was on the table. He didn't call attention to it (aka "Just to remind you, this crabbit has the upkeep on it")
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Jan 3, 2019 19:46:09 GMT
You know, it's kinda funny. I know both San and his opponent, and they are both great guys and fun to play with.
But this situation reminds me of how 2 of my oldest friends act when they play each other. These guys grew up together, have known each other since they were in middle school. But any time they play against one another they would be HARSH with no Take Backs and calling each other out on shitty positioning or banana charges. It was really funny to watch cause they would get all mad at each other, especially when one would forget a model had stealth, took a shot, and the other guy just said "I have stealth, you miss" without letting the guy change targets. They had some sort of sibling rivalry going on.
Anyway, I never thought there was anything shady or malignant going on between my 2 friends, and I would bet the situation is very similar here lol
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jan 4, 2019 7:10:02 GMT
You know, it's kinda funny. I know both San and his opponent, and they are both great guys and fun to play with. But this situation reminds me of how 2 of my oldest friends act when they play each other. These guys grew up together, have known each other since they were in middle school. But any time they play against one another they would be HARSH with no Take Backs and calling each other out on shitty positioning or banana charges. It was really funny to watch cause they would get all mad at each other, especially when one would forget a model had stealth, took a shot, and the other guy just said "I have stealth, you miss" without letting the guy change targets. They had some sort of sibling rivalry going on. Anyway, I never thought there was anything shady or malignant going on between my 2 friends, and I would bet the situation is very similar here lol So, how did this turn into a 10 page rant? :/
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Post by michael on Jan 4, 2019 18:04:50 GMT
So, how did this turn into a 10 page rant? :/ Because different humans apparently have vastly different ideas of how they should treat one another.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Jan 4, 2019 18:07:25 GMT
You know, it's kinda funny. I know both San and his opponent, and they are both great guys and fun to play with. But this situation reminds me of how 2 of my oldest friends act when they play each other. These guys grew up together, have known each other since they were in middle school. But any time they play against one another they would be HARSH with no Take Backs and calling each other out on shitty positioning or banana charges. It was really funny to watch cause they would get all mad at each other, especially when one would forget a model had stealth, took a shot, and the other guy just said "I have stealth, you miss" without letting the guy change targets. They had some sort of sibling rivalry going on. Anyway, I never thought there was anything shady or malignant going on between my 2 friends, and I would bet the situation is very similar here lol So, how did this turn into a 10 page rant? :/ Speaking personally, I commented with very little context given. Plus, there was this underlying assumption that the way in which players enforce game rules relates to PP's strategy to make money.
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Post by Havock on Jan 4, 2019 20:07:07 GMT
So, how did this turn into a 10 page rant? :/ Clickbait title and everyone (dis)agreeing with each other to a certain degree because it is a social contract thing and not something set in stone.
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