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Post by toconut on Jun 28, 2017 14:29:09 GMT
I play makeda2 like this
Makeda -Despoiler -Krea
2x Ferox full Legends of Halaak Beast handlers
Orin 2x Willbreaker
The list is pretty common I'd say. I've been through many interactions and this one seems one of the most refined for the meta. The plan is simple, you either wait his feat out or charge in with every tiger+Radheim and take a couple of heavies. The tricky part is the turn after engagement, you have to be very good at positioning with Radheim and Despoiler, because if your opponent gets them with double hand throws you lose. What is going to net you a win is Radheim constant armor piercings, Despoiler trading with at least 2 heavies before it dies, and endgame legends with tough once tigers are almost all dead. Be careful though, Radheim or Despoiler dying too early will lose you the game.
Hardest matchup is heavy spam (9 of them), while easiest is mixed winterguard/heavies since the infantry won't bother you, expecially with krea. Not easy, be sure to play it a few times so that you get a grasp on the mechanics of the matchup
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Jun 28, 2017 14:53:08 GMT
That seems to be the standard version of the CatLady. I'm currently playing 2 Archidons instead of Despoiler. This is obviously less powerful in a direct comparison, but it does award you some flexibility with the way flight works, having two heavies instead of one and being able to hit+run. You should try it sometime.
I don't find heavy spam to be that much of an issue, though it depends a lot on terrain (we use a lot around here which benefits the list massively). When it comes to Khador, it really just can't play into Butcher3.
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regleant
Junior Strategist
Sometimes things go right
Posts: 267
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Post by regleant on Jun 29, 2017 0:51:19 GMT
I play makeda2 like this Makeda -Despoiler -Krea 2x Ferox full Legends of Halaak Beast handlers Orin 2x Willbreaker The list is pretty common I'd say. I've been through many interactions and this one seems one of the most refined for the meta. The plan is simple, you either wait his feat out or charge in with every tiger+Radheim and take a couple of heavies. The tricky part is the turn after engagement, you have to be very good at positioning with Radheim and Despoiler, because if your opponent gets them with double hand throws you lose. What is going to net you a win is Radheim constant armor piercings, Despoiler trading with at least 2 heavies before it dies, and endgame legends with tough once tigers are almost all dead. Be careful though, Radheim or Despoiler dying too early will lose you the game. Hardest matchup is heavy spam (9 of them), while easiest is mixed winterguard/heavies since the infantry won't bother you, expecially with krea. Not easy, be sure to play it a few times so that you get a grasp on the mechanics of the matchup I still can't see how DICE -6 on the charge, followed by constant DICE -8 leaps can net a dead warjack. Is there a battle report somewhere I can watch to see it in action?
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Jun 29, 2017 5:15:22 GMT
Here's the thing: You almost never charge with them, except to put early damage on something with <2" melee and back up again. You'll want to leap in 99% of cases. This nets you a boosted POW14 per Cat per turn (use CMA to get rid of those spears). It really adds up. The goal is not to crush the opponents' jacks in a single turn, but to whittle them down and minimize retaliation.
And don't underestimate the Legends and Rhadeim. If done right they'll get rid of a jack per turn.
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Post by toconut on Jun 29, 2017 11:26:28 GMT
I charge whenever I can with cats because most spammable heavies have 1" melee, so you can reposition freely and it's quite important. That said, it's hard to do so after initial engagement. Someone said dice -8: I'd like to point out that you can combine a rider's spear with another's tiger, making pounce attacks at ps14. Sometimes a good despoiler placement can make them 16, while the beast kills something else.
The key to get those heavies is Radheim, every model he charges suffers around 14/15 boxes, meaning you only need to do another 19/20 wounds to kill it and will have a system crippled most likely. Once they lose the arms or cortex they're just annoyance, even though it's always better to kill one than try to cripple a second with mixed results. Keep Radheim alive and attack as soon as possible and he'll get you out of the fray eventually.
Legends are amazing. Their damage output really helps. Use all the most powerful attacks and be sure to slam their jacks into something with the same base or an obstruction. It will add a lot of damage.
Despoiler is there for dark shroud, and helps counter butcher3. His animus is a tax for him, making really hard to cast impending doom and flashing blade effectively. I've been thinking about dropping it for different heavies several times, but he's very useful against sorskka 1 and butcher 3 and dark shroud can really make the difference against colossals.
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regleant
Junior Strategist
Sometimes things go right
Posts: 267
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Post by regleant on Jun 30, 2017 2:28:49 GMT
Okay I'm sold, I will give it a try this weekend. I don't have double Ferox nor do I want to buy it as a test case. That leaves me with:
Makeda2 - Molik (because.., Molik) - Despoiler (makes everyone hit harder, and free upkeep) - Krea (for the 12 Rocketeers and Cygnar match) Willbreaker x2 Gobber Chef (I can see Fury Management being a huge problem for the list) Tyrant Rhadeim Bloodrunner Master Tormenter (4 points extra, can't go wrong here) Ferox (max) Beast Handlers (min) Legends Gobber Bellows Crew (though may drop to max out Beast Handlers)
I have a match lined up against Kara Sloan, and am trying to find a Khador jack-heavy opponent. I'm also thinking what I can get for 6 points by dropping the Master Tormenter and Bellows Crew, and the 2 best items I come up with are Totem Hunter, Ogrun Bokur, and Orin. Hmm....
I'm also concerned about running any list without the Gladiator. But others above had success?
DEFLECTION: Worth casting into gun lines, or better off saving for Stay Death?
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Post by toconut on Jun 30, 2017 9:59:05 GMT
I'd strongly advise you proxy the second unit, the list works with 2 units in mind. I don't think there's another way, but if you really hate proxying you could try to substitute the second unit+willbreaker with full cetratii+vorkesh. The list works with the concept of having ferox with krea as the only targets you can see and using all fury for stay death. There are some cases where you could debate on casting deflection, but kara has too much quality in her few shots that you'd better spend those 3 Fury in saving cats..just be sure to have all infantry around krea and don't let her be seen.
I'd also would like to note that it's not an easy win against jack spam, I use the list because it's very strong against other contenders in the meta (circle, legion..) but khador can be tricky sometimes. Makeda works really well in a pairing because it's solid, but if you don't already have it and don't plan on buying another 5 cats I think your problem can be solved with an old style brick too.
Xerxis1 -Tiberion -Sentry -Gladiator -Agonizer
Cetratii full -vorkesh Legends Paingivers
That's a list I tried some time ago (think some points are missing, can't recall it on top of my head, but the concept is there) and it's models just don't die. DW on cetratii makes them a pain because of krea+Agonizer. They simply hold the line until a tactical supremacy tiberion comes out and wrecks things 14" away and then gets back into position. Most lists can't dent it and I designed it to go against cygnar too. I never got to try it too much, but I think the concept of Xerxis1 bricking is still very powerful. Khador will have a hard time killing something if they're spamming jacks, as their p+s tops at 19 for juggernauts and they're dice -4 against the beats and -5 against cetratii..
Another good call is zaadesh in my opinion, as he can control fairly well the battle with clouds and has +2ARM to skew it.
Are you looking for an anti warjack spam or a list that fits an already existing pairing?
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regleant
Junior Strategist
Sometimes things go right
Posts: 267
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Post by regleant on Jun 30, 2017 10:54:39 GMT
I'm trying to find a list that can comfortably play into the Khador match... that is whether they drop Harkevich or Vlad1, i am in the game.
Currently my top list (all comers) is Makeda1 with Rorsch. That fails against Khador, and most Armor. My next favorite is Zaal1. But he simply cannot trade up against Khador like he can against everyone else.
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regleant
Junior Strategist
Sometimes things go right
Posts: 267
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Post by regleant on Jul 1, 2017 11:57:01 GMT
Well I played it into Kara Sloan 5 Hunters + Stormwall. I did. I didn't think I'd like the list, but I dominated my opponent pretty hard. Keeping DEF 17 Ferox alive with Stay Death round after round led me to a CP victory, losing only the Despoiler due to my own placement issues.
Just... wow. I did not expect to enjoy the list nor did I expect it to do well. But against a list relying on "quality " of attacks rather than "quantity ", it's pretty awesome. Now I have to think hard if I want Makeda1 or Makeda2 as my pairing (or both!).
I still haven't played into the Armor match, which innees to. But I already changed out the Despoiler for Cetrati +! Vorkesh for my next round. Looking forward to trying it!
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