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Post by Havock on Nov 27, 2018 17:42:22 GMT
Yeah but more damage is pretty crucial: It's always been semi-reliable to put FG on something between Sylys, Reinholdt and now, the Adjunct.
Breaking armor has always been a problematic thing for her, now, you can. Freeze, -2, then, if you're playing dumb/stupid/fun/whatever, blow a kiss from lady A. as well, then start putting big bombs on the enemy caster.
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Post by hocestbellum on Nov 28, 2018 16:01:26 GMT
Yeah but more damage is pretty crucial: It's always been semi-reliable to put FG on something between Sylys, Reinholdt and now, the Adjunct. Breaking armor has always been a problematic thing for her, now, you can. Freeze, -2, then, if you're playing dumb/stupid/fun/whatever, blow a kiss from lady A. as well, then start putting big bombs on the enemy caster. There is a colossal gulf between 'semi-reliable' and 'reliable' when you're talking about spells that cost at least half your focus. Also, the fact that she needs Sylys/Reinholdt's accuracy boosts to become semi-reliable shows that yeah, she really does like those Ice Cages. Not arguing that an ARM debuff isn't also useful; I agree entirely. But Freezing Grip can end games on its own, so I will always prioritize making it land effectively. The fact that both options may well be on the same models means it's all gravy, though!
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Post by Havock on Nov 28, 2018 17:50:46 GMT
The biggest problem with the ice cages was always 1- getting them there, Ternion being as survivable as a snowball in hell 2- reliance on direct hits, meaning that targets our favourite ice queen needs that S&P/Reroll for, the Ternions have an even harder time hitting, not saying ice cage wasn't great, biut an ARM debuff is, in this day and age, probably more useful.
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Post by hocestbellum on Nov 28, 2018 19:34:30 GMT
The biggest problem with the ice cages was always 1- getting them there, Ternion being as survivable as a snowball in hell 2- reliance on direct hits, meaning that targets our favourite ice queen needs that S&P/Reroll for, the Ternions have an even harder time hitting, not saying ice cage wasn't great, biut an ARM debuff is, in this day and age, probably more useful. Thank heavens the ARM debuff doesn't suffer from those problems, eh?
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Post by borderprince on Nov 28, 2018 20:20:12 GMT
The biggest problem with the ice cages was always 1- getting them there, Ternion being as survivable as a snowball in hell 2- reliance on direct hits, meaning that targets our favourite ice queen needs that S&P/Reroll for, the Ternions have an even harder time hitting, not saying ice cage wasn't great, biut an ARM debuff is, in this day and age, probably more useful. Thank heavens the ARM debuff doesn't suffer from those problems, eh? Well that's why you Ice Cage first, obviously.
...
Oh, wait...
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Post by Havock on Nov 28, 2018 22:24:21 GMT
The biggest problem with the ice cages was always 1- getting them there, Ternion being as survivable as a snowball in hell 2- reliance on direct hits, meaning that targets our favourite ice queen needs that S&P/Reroll for, the Ternions have an even harder time hitting, not saying ice cage wasn't great, biut an ARM debuff is, in this day and age, probably more useful. Thank heavens the ARM debuff doesn't suffer from those problems, eh? I'm fairly sure the preferred targets now are in the DEF 10-14 area, rather than trying to ice cage a DEF15 caster behind a wall :v
Ice Cage is great, really. It's just better on my combat alchemists who can just scatter and conveniently still hit the target because they are no more than 4" away
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Post by hocestbellum on Nov 28, 2018 22:33:50 GMT
Thank heavens the ARM debuff doesn't suffer from those problems, eh? I'm fairly sure the preferred targets now are in the DEF 10-14 area, rather than trying to ice cage a DEF15 caster behind a wall :v
Ice Cage is great, really. It's just better on my combat alchemists who can just scatter and conveniently still hit the target because they are no more than 4" away
Ah, see, this is the disconnect. I'm one of those weirdos who plays Sorscha1 as an attrition caster, not an assassin! I didn't use Ice Cage to hit casters, I always used it to hit that Satyxis/Stormblade/Dawnguard/Ravager a couple of times so I need 3-4 to hit with Freezing Grip instead of 7-8.
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Post by Havock on Nov 29, 2018 0:01:22 GMT
I did too, but even then, I felt I did just fine with just the threat of her FG, I never quite bothered with ice cages, I just invested in more things that could benefit from stuff being stationary.
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Post by Kriegsspiele on Nov 29, 2018 9:10:57 GMT
Interesting thread. Statistical question: When has an OOT Khador list won a tournament (or at least placed well)? Maybe even an OOT list pair? I can't find any OOT list within the last months and need to go back to 2016: www.discountgamesinc.com/tournaments
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Post by Netherby on Nov 29, 2018 9:40:53 GMT
No one plays OOT competitively any more...
Playing 16 points down just doesn't seem like a good idea to competitive people.
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Post by hocestbellum on Nov 29, 2018 12:00:21 GMT
Interesting thread. Statistical question: When has an OOT Khador list won a tournament (or at least placed well)? Maybe even an OOT list pair? I can't find any OOT list within the last months and need to go back to 2016: www.discountgamesinc.com/tournamentsIt's been a while, for sure. June 2017 by my quick scan. But at the same time, who cares? Discountgames is often a better indicator of who is winning games, not what is winning them. I did an analysis on is back in July - HERE. There were several cases where certain lists appeared dominant just because one person was winning a lot with them. Like, if you looked at Thorle and Kreuger in Circle they made 9 appearances; 6 were due to Tomasz Mucha. There were some standout lists, like Ossrum Irregulars, and things like the Animantarax and Black Industries were heavily represented, but my take-home was that the player mattered at least as much as the list. I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility that a skilled player could take a non-theme list to a tournament and place, but that's neither here nor there for this thread, which states in the very first line that it's aimed at funsies.
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Post by hocestbellum on Nov 29, 2018 14:49:44 GMT
Okay, Soul Samurai here's a stab at a Sorscha2 list for you: conflictchamber.com/#c3201b6Y7wnj8hl5l4l4l3nn7Qgd7S7T7WKhador Army - 75 / 75 points [Sorscha 2] Forward Kommander Sorscha [+27] - Behemoth [25] - Greylord Adjunct [4] Koldun Lord [4] Man-O-War Kovnik [4] Man-O-War Strike Tanker [5] Man-O-War Strike Tanker [5] Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [6] Greylord Ternion [7] Man-O-War Shocktroopers (max) [16] - Man-O-War Shocktrooper Officer [4] Winter Guard Infantry (max) [10] - Winter Guard Infantry Officer & Standard [4] - Winter Guard Rocketeer (3) [6] This is assuming that the Ternion keep Canker Frost. It's also super rough; you may notice the lack of Kovnik Joe... he's certainly got a place, but I'm not sure what to drop for him. Probably one of the Strike Tankers... but I love them so much. Quick rundown: both units get Desperate Pace, so there's some reasonable speed. Iron Flesh is amazing on Shocktroopers. Shatterstorm is great on basically everything, but the Suppression Tanker and the WGI would be the stand-outs. Sorscha's feat synergises incredibly with both Armour Piercing and Canker Frost; the two Strike Tankers would average 42 damage to an ARM20 huge base alone. Behemoth has a 50% chance to one-shot most heavies on the charge. WGI blunderbusses become a significant threat to a huge number of things, rockets doubly so. You've got magic attacks left right and centre thanks to the Adjunct and the Koldun Lord (and an objective in most cases), loads of sprays, better RFP than almost any other Khador list, access to Grevious Wounds. Obvious weakness is pathfinder, (but you're not going to be charging for the most part anyway), and perhaps SotN. I actually think the general hitting power of the list should stop that being auto-lose, although it's obviously not a favoured matchup. The lynchpin here is Canker Frost; pushing that damage curve by 2 points is really good, and the potential to double it is the icing on the cake.
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Post by Havock on Nov 29, 2018 16:28:29 GMT
You could slot in Joe by dropping to min WGI.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Nov 29, 2018 18:45:37 GMT
I like it.
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Post by Netherby on Nov 30, 2018 7:55:11 GMT
Don't you think Ragman + A&H need to be added? Perhaps even Gorman or Hat-chuck for the +8 damage swing with decap? I mean 16 damage before you roll any dice sounds like a good starting point...
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