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Post by Netherby on Dec 5, 2018 22:10:19 GMT
I kinda want to run Karchev in a balanced list; let's say three jacks and some infantry. It doesn't need to be a power list or anything (obviously it won't be if it's not jackspam), but I am wondering if there's any synergies or anything there. Maybe something with Karchev's clouds, or something that particularly likes it when he knocks stuff down first? Heh, if this was MkII I might have brought some Freebooters... Well, you could look at small base jamming models and leveraging Counter Charge? Steelhead Halberdiers are pretty good in that role... I mean they are basically WGI cost but get to be DEF 15 against charges. Everything benefits from him knocking stuff down. It's a reasonably significant damage buff even into DEF 11/12, but it's not very reliable and usually means he's a bit too far forward for his own good... But then with only 3 'jacks... I think you really have to take more than that or why bring Karchev? Like you have 106 points or something to spend, even if you went with 40 points of infantry you still have 66 points left which is easily 5 'jacks...
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Post by Soul Samurai on Dec 6, 2018 5:45:51 GMT
But then with only 3 'jacks... I think you really have to take more than that or why bring Karchev? Like you have 106 points or something to spend, even if you went with 40 points of infantry you still have 66 points left which is easily 5 'jacks... Oh, I guess I was just thinking 50 points; that's the points level we play at locally right now. Three heavies (four with Karchev) is plenty of armour at that point; any more and it risks becoming a negative play experience for my regular opponents. I'm mainly thinking of bringing Karchev because, well, I just want to play Karchev. Not because I want to run a specific type of list or playstyle that he does particularly well.
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Post by Netherby on Dec 6, 2018 7:50:20 GMT
Yeah, it's just that Karchev is all about his 'jacks. If you don't have many it's like, what do you actually do with Karchev?
Just walk forward on full camp and spray stuff?
I mean if you want to do 'dumb' stuff, you could run multiple Decimators plus some Seers. Use the K/D spray to make two boosted damage rolls with the Decis. Include Reinholdt for Reload... You're ignoring most of his kit still though.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Dec 6, 2018 8:21:40 GMT
I intend to make good use of his feat to get past ARM buffs (Arcane Shield has such a big impact on many of my games). He still has a range buff for his jacks. His spray will be useful for forcing enemy jacks to Shake (and locking Rowdy down so no Countercharge/Retaliatory Strike), and I might get to kill some infantry with it. I keep feeling like you should be able to get SOME use out of his fire clouds? And I reckon he can be a bit of a bully late-game. I rather like the Decimator idea too. Hmm, a list is starting to come together...
Karchev -Juggernaut -Decimator -Reinhardt Rutger Hauer -Freebooter Widowmaker Marksman Mechanics Infantry
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Post by welshhoppo on Dec 6, 2018 11:14:33 GMT
I actually have a theme less tournament next month.
Fun! Might try OW2
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Post by hocestbellum on Dec 7, 2018 10:23:35 GMT
I actually have a theme less tournament next month. Fun! Might try OW2 Strong choice, as she runs pretty much everything. What are you planning to run?
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Post by welshhoppo on Dec 7, 2018 11:11:04 GMT
I actually have a theme less tournament next month. Fun! Might try OW2 Strong choice, as she runs pretty much everything. What are you planning to run? Stuff...... I have no clue. I havent done theme less sign WGK came out.
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Post by hocestbellum on Dec 7, 2018 12:47:48 GMT
Well, it's pretty easy for OW2; it's not like she's got any specific buffs. Everything loves gunline protection and ARM debuffs, all jacks low free charges, pathfinder, and full focus. You can basically run whatever the hell you like!
WGI + hard-hitting infantry always seems like a good combo to me
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Post by Netherby on Dec 7, 2018 22:50:01 GMT
I sort of think the first thing to do for themeless is identify some nifty combination that wouldn't be possible in a theme.
One way to figure that out is to look at your existing themed lists and think: "What would I really love to put in this list, but can't because of the theme?"
As an example we could take a LegoS list. There are some glaring holes with no good Merc options and no shooting. Obviously character 'jacks you may want are pretty much never available either.
So maybe I want my core LegoS with OW2, but I want to add in Alexia1 and Behemoth for some good ranged support. I'm also free to take Rienholdt now so I can fire the Crow gun twice and maybe Orin if I'm worried about spell assassinations. I also don't have to care about exactly how many points of Iron Fangs I've got to hit those free card thresholds, so I can drop anything that was mostly points padding.
I feel like that is actually one of the worst things about themes. You usually put in the stuff you actually want, but then you're X points shy of the 60 point mark and you start adding things to hit that magic number rather than for any other reason.
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Post by hocestbellum on Dec 7, 2018 23:21:02 GMT
I intend to make good use of his feat to get past ARM buffs (Arcane Shield has such a big impact on many of my games). He still has a range buff for his jacks. His spray will be useful for forcing enemy jacks to Shake (and locking Rowdy down so no Countercharge/Retaliatory Strike), and I might get to kill some infantry with it. I keep feeling like you should be able to get SOME use out of his fire clouds? And I reckon he can be a bit of a bully late-game. I rather like the Decimator idea too. Hmm, a list is starting to come together... Karchev -Juggernaut -Decimator -Reinhardt Rutger Hauer -Freebooter Widowmaker Marksman Mechanics Infantry Just a suggestion here; since you're playing non-theme, if you're worried about Arcane Shield or other ARM buffs, take Ruin! Also, whilst Shaw + Freebooter does look funky I feel like you're paying 13 points for situational damage; if you get the KD you're looking at 14+3d6 damage, average 24.5. Whereas a Marauder is average 23 for two less points, plus it gets the feat, the smite, all the battlegroup stuff. Also, swapping Shaw + Booter for the Marauder would free up two points to switch the Decimator to Ruin. If you can free up another point, switch the Marksman for a Strike Tanker. Bulldoze, GW, three initials, AP, massive durability... great deal for +1 point. EDIT: Sorry, should have counted up the points. You're way down! Karchev has 30, so you can straight up swap the Decimator for Ruin. Dropping Shaw is then unnecessary, but if you wanted to go to a Marauder you could also drop the WMMM and have all manner of options! For example: Khador Army - 50 / 50 points [Karchev 1] Karchev the Terrible [+30] - Juggernaut [13] - Marauder [11] - Ruin [17] - Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator [4] Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [6] Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [6] Battle Mechaniks (min) [3] Winter Guard Infantry (max) [10] - Winter Guard Infantry Officer & Standard [4] - Winter Guard Rocketeer (3) [6] That's a super anti-infantry version: You could swap the Mechanics out and drop a Suppression to a Strike to fit in Joe, which is more flexible. Good hitting power at range and melee, magic weapons, sprays for days, high accuracy... Yeah, I think there's mileage in the 3-jack Karchev!
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Post by Soul Samurai on Dec 9, 2018 6:17:46 GMT
Just a suggestion here; since you're playing non-theme, if you're worried about Arcane Shield or other ARM buffs, take Ruin! Also, whilst Shaw + Freebooter does look funky I feel like you're paying 13 points for situational damage; if you get the KD you're looking at 14+3d6 damage, average 24.5. Whereas a Marauder is average 23 for two less points, plus it gets the feat, the smite, all the battlegroup stuff. Also, swapping Shaw + Booter for the Marauder would free up two points to switch the Decimator to Ruin. If you can free up another point, switch the Marksman for a Strike Tanker. Bulldoze, GW, three initials, AP, massive durability... great deal for +1 point. EDIT: Sorry, should have counted up the points. You're way down! Karchev has 30, so you can straight up swap the Decimator for Ruin. Dropping Shaw is then unnecessary, but if you wanted to go to a Marauder you could also drop the WMMM and have all manner of options! For example: Khador Army - 50 / 50 points [Karchev 1] Karchev the Terrible [+30] - Juggernaut [13] - Marauder [11] - Ruin [17] - Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator [4] Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [6] Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [6] Battle Mechaniks (min) [3] Winter Guard Infantry (max) [10] - Winter Guard Infantry Officer & Standard [4] - Winter Guard Rocketeer (3) [6] That's a super anti-infantry version: You could swap the Mechanics out and drop a Suppression to a Strike to fit in Joe, which is more flexible. Good hitting power at range and melee, magic weapons, sprays for days, high accuracy... Yeah, I think there's mileage in the 3-jack Karchev! Great suggestions, thanks!
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Post by hocestbellum on Dec 20, 2018 16:42:01 GMT
[Sorscha 2] Forward Kommander Sorscha [+27] - Behemoth [25] - Greylord Adjunct [4] Koldun Lord [4] Man-O-War Kovnik [4] Man-O-War Strike Tanker [5] Man-O-War Strike Tanker [5] Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [6] Greylord Ternion [7] Man-O-War Shocktroopers (max) [16] - Man-O-War Shocktrooper Officer [4] Winter Guard Infantry (max) [10] - Winter Guard Infantry Officer & Standard [4] - Winter Guard Rocketeer (3) [6] Managed to get a few games in with this list against my Menoth buddy running Exemplars. All his lists were double Cinerators + Vengers, basically. I swapped the Suppression Tanker for Joe and a Goblin Tinker. First game vs Harby was a mess; I forgot that his entire army had Blessed, and that Shatterstorm doesn't stop Martyrdom, that the Cinerators ignore Tough, and that Vengeance does still trigger with RFP attacks. I'm amazed how quickly I forgot the rules! However, I still won; Strike Tankers denying Martyrdom was handy, but the absolute clincher was Behemoth one shotting Harby on feat turn through a 7-Focus camp. (Needed an 11 on 3 dice, 50% chance, still had another shot) Second game vs Harby he switched his jacks to a Judicator. Highlights: played a much tighter game. He was using the Judicator to shield Harby, but it died horribly on feat turn. Was still a massive grind after that, though; Blessed Weaponmasters took the Shocktroopers down handily, which let the Vengers get to Behemoth. Had to get Sorscha involved with Cyclone, and the Strike Tankers were making full use of Dual Attack. WGI finally chewed a unit of Cinerators to bits, and the Tinker just about kept Behemoth in the fight. Won on scenario. Third game was vs High Reclaimer, and it was pretty unfair. The list basically denies all his tech; no revive, no clouds, no souls. The Judicator hits like a god-damned freight train with HoF, though, but again it just got smashed on feat turn. He couldn't really catch up in attrition terms without souls and without his feat. Overall thoughts; Canker Frost was super useful, the Adjunct was really handy. CF wasn't as 'be all and end all' as I thought it would be in this list; with the feat turn you just hit hard enough regardless, and the single target limitation makes it difficult to leverage on a wider scale. Also, as soon as you move the Greylords up, they'll get shot. So I think it might be better to just use one member of the unit to CF a key target and keep the others in reserve. Love the new Koldun Lord; super flexible, and Puppet Master is neat. I'll definitely try the list more in the new year
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Post by Soul Samurai on Dec 21, 2018 11:23:05 GMT
Cool, it's great to hear about lesser-loved casters like S2 getting to shine.
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