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Fall CID
Nov 30, 2018 12:19:50 GMT
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Post by auraco on Nov 30, 2018 12:19:50 GMT
Just watched the dev talk. And I agree with pagani when he says it’s really not armywide grevious wounds, not all units will have CA and they can’t all use the grevious wounds every turn. But we’ll see I still think him picking up sac pawn and the pathfinder spell is a bigger desl than the grevious wounds. The grevious wounds would be the difference between the update being: ‘’ cool update bruh’’ and ‘’So Khador can get noce things like cryx and circle’’ I’ll live without it but would rather have it than not. Pagani also seemed like he really wanted canker frost to stay, if not on the ternions maybe on the koldun lord, but he wanted it to be there in some shape or form, I’d be ok with it going to the koldun lord, it would still be a damage buff available to us and it’s not like I wasn’t planning to take koldun lords anyway in my wolves list. Now I just hope we don’t have to wait for too long for this update.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Nov 30, 2018 12:58:22 GMT
I Was the Haley 1 (week 1) and Ravyn (week 2) batrep, and got one in week 2.5 against Lukas which was more combined arms. I won my games on scenario, but in each instance my army was getting tabled (less so vs. Lukas, but likewise he still had 3 mostly undamaged jacks).
I think the meta is going to figure out that you can’t play a tentative “one toe in the zone” scenario game, or that toe is going to get stomped on. The flip side is that Wolves lists don’t have a ton of staying power.
I think the movable clouds is a reasonable offset vs. the bump from 9 to 10 points. The point increase means 5 units instead of 6, or 6 instead of 7, or if you’re feeling really spammy 7 instead of 8 but with Greylords, Fenris, and the Escort better I’m probably inclined to max out at 6 anyway. We’ll see.
I also watched the dev talk. I would be OK with Canker going to the Koldun if it needs to. I hope Greivous sticks over swapping to Take Down since I’m not a fan of the berserk chain getting nipped that way. Generally, it felt like “most of what we saw” is going to stay, the question is which 25% is going to get a tamp down.
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Post by auraco on Nov 30, 2018 13:22:59 GMT
Even if canker frost and grevious wounds goes (I really hope they don't both go away) the changes to the cloud, the escort picking up sac pawn, fenris going down in point, the changes to the koldun lord are all going to make the list much more playable than it is now and not just be the doom reaver spam list it was in the first week of CID.
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Fall CID
Nov 30, 2018 13:32:27 GMT
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Post by welshhoppo on Nov 30, 2018 13:32:27 GMT
I think gun mages don't have a hope in hell against wolves with the witch.
However i did find that you need to play witch to keep them alive.
Then you double stack the armour debuff.
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Post by greenbay924 on Nov 30, 2018 13:33:58 GMT
Even if canker frost and grevious wounds goes (I really hope they don't both go away) the changes to the cloud, the escort picking up sac pawn, fenris going down in point, the changes to the koldun lord are all going to make the list much more playable than it is now and not just be the doom reaver spam list it was in the first week of CID. Oh yeah, the changes really bring out the rest of the list. I fear if Grievous is removed from the CA, and nothing put in its place, people will just take Saxon and leave the CA at home, but other than that, the rest of the support models - Koldun lords, Ternion, GLO, Fenris will all see the table, maybe even a Forge Seer if trying to take advantage of copying Hoarfrost. Since the week 3 changes, I've yet to build a list with more then 4-5 Doomreaver units, most of which containing 4. Very exciting time for the theme. If the arm debuff sticks (which it sounds like it will, in some form), the list has some serious potential.
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Post by greenbay924 on Nov 30, 2018 13:35:42 GMT
I think gun mages don't have a hope in hell against wolves with the witch. However i did find that you need to play witch to keep them alive. Then you double stack the armour debuff. OW2 is going to be the first grab for a lot of people with this list, I know she's my first caster in mind. For good reason, she protects them the best against guns. I'm not sure she's going to end up necessarily being the best for them, much more time and playtest needs to happen, but the synergies are there. And double stacking debuffs for doomreavers to become effectively PS 16 weapon masters is quite appealing.
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Fall CID
Nov 30, 2018 13:51:28 GMT
via mobile
Post by kovnikninehouse on Nov 30, 2018 13:51:28 GMT
I mean its certainly more of a hard counter than tharn ravagers You know what is sad though? Just play old witch 2 and gunline match ups are mostly solved. Which is concerning Old Witch doesn't solve sprays
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Fall CID
Nov 30, 2018 14:10:18 GMT
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Nov 30, 2018 14:10:18 GMT
The one problem with OW is she’s a hard caster to keep alive, (or, hard for me), and Doomreavers fold pretty hard when finally attacked, so she’s hardly a slam dunk alternative. I think the Adjunct solves some important problems for her.
Too bad a caster can’t take 2 attachments...
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Fall CID
Nov 30, 2018 14:26:52 GMT
via mobile
Post by auraco on Nov 30, 2018 14:26:52 GMT
I’ve never had a problem keeping OW2 alive. Running her in wolves is a case of all the eggs in the same backet though, it can double down on debuff and all, but all the working part of the list also rely on offensive spells to work, some list with good anti magic tech will just eat this list up. Kromak1 comes to mind but there are other casters with good anti magic tech out there too.
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Fall CID
Nov 30, 2018 14:40:22 GMT
via mobile
Post by jonnyboy on Nov 30, 2018 14:40:22 GMT
Does anyone have a link to the dev talk?
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Post by hocestbellum on Nov 30, 2018 15:12:21 GMT
Here you go; Ganso posted it a couple of pages back
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Post by jisidro on Nov 30, 2018 15:42:42 GMT
You know what is sad though? Just play old witch 2 and gunline match ups are mostly solved. Which is concerning Old Witch doesn't solve sprays Sprays don't solve 11"/13" threat weapon masters
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Post by auraco on Nov 30, 2018 15:49:26 GMT
Old Witch doesn't solve sprays Sprays don't solve 11"/13" threat weapon masters The games I’ve seen with the Railless from cricible guard tell me otherwise...
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Post by hocestbellum on Nov 30, 2018 15:51:07 GMT
Old Witch doesn't solve sprays Sprays don't solve 11"/13" threat weapon masters They kinda do? Being able to mop up several models with a single attack really helps even the odds after the charge. Especially true if there's Gunfighter/DA/Assault involved. If Doom Reavers charged my WGI I'd expect to lose the front line of 5 models and then kill every Doom Reaver within a foot.
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Post by demoncalibre on Nov 30, 2018 16:58:18 GMT
This is why I don't like having conversations on the internet. It always devolves into being pedantic. You are leaning on the fact that in one of my posts I said "never" while quoting a post that allows for that kind of design to occasionally work. The point I was making and I thought I conveyed in my message, is giving him a Skornergistic Rule that isn't that useful, isn't actually and upgrade, because it won't clear the bar for him to be playable. Which means while the model may have "improved" it didn't improve in a meaningful way. It's like putting poop in a pretty box, it's improved, but no one really cares. Really? They always turn into pedantry? I kid But I wasn't taking your "never" too literally - I understand you were being hyperbolic and don't hold that against you. I tried to make it clear that I wasn't making an argument that the escort is better balanced with take down than GW. I was responding to arguments that skornergistic instead of non-skornergistic abilities are a non-starter as a way to balance a model that is currently too strong because they will necessarily make it too weak. I thought that's the point you and a couple of others were trying to make, hence the trencher example. If you're really only making an argument about this specific case, I don't necessarily disagree with you, and tried to state as much. But yeah, we may have been talking past each other a little. That is a reasonable position, it can be tough sometimes on the internet particularly when we are frequently squeezing it in when we should be working. I know the Devs don't like the term Skornergy, sometimes they are correct and it's choices(like the Bombadier UA which is one of the few examples of this actually working out), but there are laundry lists of examples of models where they had rules that worked against each other, and it didn't pan out. Most of them have gotten fixed by that point. I think they don't like the term Skornergy, because it's is tagged to something that honestly failed to do what it was suppose to do. The choices they offered weren't compelling enough.
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