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Post by borderprince on Oct 24, 2018 14:44:48 GMT
I think I figured it out in the shower this morning. Truly, I am Archimedes. Levers, bah! I’ll spend my time reasoning about you soldiers! Give me a large enough army and a battlefield on which to place it and I shall move the world?
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Post by hocestbellum on Oct 24, 2018 14:55:38 GMT
I think I figured it out in the shower this morning. Truly, I am Archimedes. Levers, bah! I’ll spend my time reasoning about you soldiers! Give me a large enough army and a battlefield on which to place it and I shall move the world? Or Butcher runs naked across the battlefield yelling εὕρηκα!
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Post by borderprince on Oct 24, 2018 15:31:35 GMT
Or Butcher runs naked across the battlefield yelling εὕρηκα! "Throw me a towel"?
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Post by The Snark Knight on Oct 24, 2018 17:08:21 GMT
Or Butcher runs naked across the battlefield yelling εὕρηκα! "Throw me a towel"?
Probably a bath sheet, assuming he bathes.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Oct 24, 2018 18:01:38 GMT
I don't thing PP is going to abandon that part of his design though. B_1 is the mid-backline caster that buffs his Army, only personally killing things if they get within 10 inches of him. B_3 is the mid-frontline Super Solo that murders the world. B_2 seems to be the a mid-frontline caster that doesn't have to kill the world, but kills just enough to allow his army to do it for him. There’s definitely a difference in this, though. I’ve personally tried multiple iterations of “Butcher2 gets more benefits and/or has more pressure placed on him to get into melee ASAP.” It all feels bad, because suddenly everything hinges on that one single giant play. Moderately capable opponents can stop it, and it’s no fun playing a caster whose game plan is “Please let my opponent really screw up, please let my opponent really screw up....” Anyway... Sorry, stressful work day really derailed my great B2 reasoning vibe I had going on during the commute. We’ll see how it goes tomorrow. It's cool man. What I was trying to say though is that PP won't let us trigger his kit any other way that is not Butcher himself getting in the thick of it. Which means that we should start accepting the idea that Butcher WILL need to kill some fools in order to have access to his buffs, PP will not be flexible on this issue I think. The problem B_2 is facing is that if he personally is wrecking armies he can't be better at it than B_3 (why have both in the first place). And, if he is not wrecking shit, then he should be buffing shit, and straight up passive/spell buffs is something B_1 already does. So again, why have both? PP will insist on giving him abilities/buffs that Trigger off of him killing things in melee. So we should temper our expectations around that. Similar to how Conferred Rage is applied to jacks I think he should have an equivalent but for Infantry, something like +2 SPD +2 MAT for friendly faction Warrior models in Control after killing a fool (he is inspiring insanity), and a +2 ARM and DEF bonus for him personally (to reflect that he is a frightening figure that is difficult to put down). Yes, that means the opponent will have to place things very differently to prevent Butcher and his army from going nuts, but that gives us the advantage on Scenario, he already has a 12 inch thread and he can kill stuff pretty easily right now, PP would just have to give him more survivability, and I'm talking Madrak or Mk2 Terminus level of survivability. It's the only way players will gladly throw him into a furball and not be immediately punished.
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Post by michael on Oct 24, 2018 20:19:49 GMT
Actually, B3 kind of made B2 obsolete. So, I agree there. But, eh, what are you gonna do?
But, anyway: I have a new iteration of B2 that feels very good to me just on the “look and feel” test. Let me get in at least one test game with him this weekend before I share.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Oct 24, 2018 23:32:00 GMT
Question for folks who might have tried it?
Have you ever lived the dream with B2, Ragman, Victor or Connie, and a string of rage tokens? is it worth trying?
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Post by michael on Oct 24, 2018 23:34:50 GMT
Question for folks who might have tried it? Have you ever lived the dream with B2, Ragman, Victor or Connie, and a string of rage tokens? is it worth trying? Do you mean, giving the tokens to the colossal? It’s about the same as putting Fury on it and allocating it 2 extra focus.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Oct 25, 2018 1:11:12 GMT
I’m talking full boat dream.
Put Fury on it, add a Ragman tagalong, get Vicky pumping iron at P&S 28, and then feed it all the rage tokens (and focus while you’re at it). My thinking is this:
P&S 28 is a THING. Vicky’s main deficiency in melee is MAT 6. Conferred rage totally fixes that. Power attack sweep would be a THING too.
So, yeah, thing.
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Post by michael on Oct 25, 2018 3:24:33 GMT
I have never done that. But... I dunno. It seems like the impossible dream, yes.
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Post by michael on Oct 25, 2018 3:34:34 GMT
I am really, really excited about this Butcher2 I put together. I swear, it’s like I’ve been working fruitlessly on a puzzle, and suddenly all the pieces finally just clicked into place! It definitely passed the “look and feel” test. I got busy with other stuff for the last five or six hours. I just looked over my notes again and found myself smiling, genuinely excited to put this model on the table. Boy oh boy!
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Post by welshhoppo on Oct 25, 2018 6:07:42 GMT
I’m talking full boat dream. Put Fury on it, add a Ragman tagalong, get Vicky pumping iron at P&S 28, and then feed it all the rage tokens (and focus while you’re at it). My thinking is this: P&S 28 is a THING. Vicky’s main deficiency in melee is MAT 6. Conferred rage totally fixes that. Power attack sweep would be a THING too. So, yeah, thing. Problem is. There is such a thing as overkill. Sure you can do all that. But how many opposing models are you going to get in Connie's melee range? 2/3 at most?
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Oct 25, 2018 11:47:11 GMT
welshhoppo, yes, of course you’re right, but just think of the look on your opponents face when he has an ARM 21 stormwall looking at you, and you start doing dice plus 7, kill it with 2 initials and 2 purchased attacks, and then still get 4 more attacks at dice +9 and dice +12 against the two jacks next two it. I want to live that dream.
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Post by welshhoppo on Oct 25, 2018 15:08:48 GMT
welshhoppo , yes, of course you’re right, but just think of the look on your opponents face when he has an ARM 21 stormwall looking at you, and you start doing dice plus 7, kill it with 2 initials and 2 purchased attacks, and then still get 4 more attacks at dice +9 and dice +12 against the two jacks next two it. I want to live that dream. I got to live the smaller dream against skathrex at the WTC. One rounded his Conquest with a fury 3 focus 3 rage tokened juggernaut
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Oct 25, 2018 15:33:35 GMT
welshhoppo, yes, of course you’re right, but just think of the look on your opponents face when he has an ARM 21 stormwall looking at you, and you start doing dice plus 7, kill it with 2 initials and 2 purchased attacks, and then still get 4 more attacks at dice +9 and dice +12 against the two jacks next two it. I want to live that dream. You'd actually probably have another 5 attacks at least, since killing the stormwall will likely generate another rage token, which can go straight on the Khador colossal
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