|
Post by greytemplar on May 12, 2017 2:08:49 GMT
yeah, I'm thinking it gaining the Scrutator tag is 100% down to people asking for it in the Dev Talk, and the lukewarm response to the theme.
If they make Doors of Judgement no longer once per turn, then I could see the theme being a decent sleeper. Especially with Testament. You bring the battle engine, get 2 free UAs, run 3 units of KE, and keep resurrecting them in the zones. If they die, you door's them and they can get brought back next turn. It actually mirrors Testament's old Exemplar theme well, that too allowed the battle engine.
It would finally give some staying power to our infantry as opposed to simply being paper tigers.
|
|
|
Post by dicebedamned on May 12, 2017 12:07:52 GMT
So I managed to make a fun looking sevi 1 gunline in theme using the CID voJ: conflictchamber.com/#b21b_-0E0T1O221G1G3n3t2_2m2jfVi8Protectorate Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Exemplar Interdiction !!! Your army contains a CID entry. !!! You are using a pre-release theme. (Severius 1) Grand Scrutator Severius [+28] - Blessing of Vengeance [13] - Reckoner [16] - Redeemer [11] - Redeemer [11] Exemplar Errant Seneschal [4] Vassal Mechanik [1] Choir of Menoth (min) [4] Exemplar Errants (max) [16] Knights Exemplar [9] - Knights Exemplar Officer [0(5)] Vessel of Judgment (CID) [18] I plan to test this out on Sat. To be honest I have not built for free points - hard to do if you want VoJ - nor am I really taking advantage of the healing from VoJ, but rather I have gone all in on a blessed gunline with plenty of infantry clearing and a single hard hitting unit to finish jacks off from the shooting (Boosted PoW 15 Redeemer shots when the opponent will not have any buffs is not bad.) Not convinced the concept for this list would not be better of playing in the Creator's Might theme...
|
|
|
Post by C0deb1ue on May 16, 2017 18:12:56 GMT
Have to say, I am still struggling to understand the concept behind this theme.It does nothing for exemplers as the main buff is to jacks. Taking advantage of that stops you from getting more than 1-2max solos.
There is little real benefit to spamming exemplers as the theme doesn't give them any bonuses
And the battle engine is a nice add but again what has that got to do with exemplers? and the healing is unlikely to do anything to make Bastions or Cinerators (both lacklustre) more viable as they will just be insta-gibbed before they are healable on 5 boxes.
Colour me bloody confused...
|
|
|
Post by greytemplar on May 16, 2017 18:20:50 GMT
Up to 15 free points isn't nothing. The main problem with the KE UA is it's a point too expensive.
So they aren't getting no bonuses, but yeah. It's definitely uninspired.
|
|
|
Post by gargs454 on May 16, 2017 18:58:22 GMT
Yeah I mean the bonuses are alright, and frankly, I kind of think they are in line with what theme forces should do in terms of power (although I am always a bit skeptical about free points since that makes it that much more difficult for somebody playing out of theme). The problem is that its not balanced with themes in other factions and as mentioned, it doesn't do much to encourage using Exemplars, particularly the heavy infantry. I really just think that PP has really been scatter brained when it comes to the power level of themes across the factions. IMHO, themes should be something that make for a fun list that is still competitive, but which don't make you a chump for not running in theme (i.e. by not running in theme, and collecting all the requisite bonuses you are putting yourself at a great disadvantage).
|
|
|
Post by greytemplar on May 16, 2017 19:05:06 GMT
Agreed. PP has been very schitzo about theme design. And generally with Protectorate design they have no clue what to do. So it's a perfect storm of incompetence and apathy.
|
|
Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
|
Post by Provengreil on May 16, 2017 21:41:50 GMT
VOJ and Eye give me a bit of hope, and the confirmed CID for exemplar will be a thing. Patience is the name of the game now: skorne went a lot lower for a lot longer, and just think of in-faction cygnar for MK2.
|
|
|
Post by Rowdy Dragon on May 16, 2017 22:47:32 GMT
I think this is literally why Khador lost the least and Gained the Most in Transition. Because it's like Mashed Potatoes. It's difficult to screw up.
|
|
demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
|
Post by demonic on May 17, 2017 1:58:20 GMT
Khador has the most wins and the least losses because their math is spot on and their sacrifices are unimportant in the current meta. 9 def is the same as 11 def when you are considering that the average MAT/RAT roll starts at 5. However, the average damage roll starts anywhere from 12-14, equating out to 18-20, making their 20+ armor negate all average rolls, yet not negating all average rolls for 18 and 19 armor. How can you switch this? make mat and rat rolls low enough that 11 def will still force a boost or average out damage so that it will result in nickel and diming khador jacks as well. However, if you lower base mat/rat by the 1-2 that would be required, you'll need to do a look over at the maximum amount that def can get up to. Basically, it becomes complicated; easiest solution is to nerf Khador to 19 base arm and up their def to 10 or 11. They still have plenty of other great things about them to cancel out the added damage.
|
|
|
Post by Rowdy Dragon on May 17, 2017 2:03:42 GMT
I disagree with you utterly and completely. I thus then demand that the choir only have the +2 Buff to Damage Option, and remove any thing I dislike, have trouble with, or Gives Menoth any flavor because I said so because I chose that it doesn't matter in the meta.
|
|
|
Post by C0deb1ue on May 17, 2017 10:56:36 GMT
This may be a stupid question but is Gravus a possible free solo in this theme?
|
|
|
Post by dicebedamned on May 17, 2017 12:12:37 GMT
I do not believe he is. I think it states small or medium based, and he is large.
Agree with the posts about the completely uninspired theme and how confusing it is.
I tried out the list posted above, it worked fine, but at the end of it I definitely felt I could have run it under either of the other themes, or out of theme and it would not make a big difference - and this was against Skorne, where blessed shooting jacks are amazing.
|
|
|
Post by C0deb1ue on May 17, 2017 12:58:43 GMT
I do not believe he is. I think it states small or medium based, and he is large. Agree with the posts about the completely uninspired theme and how confusing it is. I tried out the list posted above, it worked fine, but at the end of it I definitely felt I could have run it under either of the other themes, or out of theme and it would not make a big difference - and this was against Skorne, where blessed shooting jacks are amazing. It's a shame he isn't available as Gravus may have given a good implicit bonus and points bonus without causing too much fuss
|
|
|
Post by paradox on May 17, 2017 14:58:35 GMT
This theme will be great with Vindy, because he actually helps fix the flaws exemplars have. However, disappointingly, I have easily made over half a dozen Exemplar Interdiction lists with no exemplars at all. Because Blessed weapons, including guns, on jacks is stupidly good. Indictor, amusingly, need no longer apply.
Too bad PP can't find ways to plug these loopholes. I'm sure this is just #designspace for #options though, right? Exemplar theme forces with all jacks and no exemplar. Totally intentional.
|
|
|
Post by tiberius on May 17, 2017 15:00:43 GMT
I have yet to see any theme where a dragoon can be taken for free (the character ones anyhow) and they are worded specifically to prevent that.
|
|