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Post by apoc2148 on Sept 17, 2018 14:08:13 GMT
Fair points. Forgot that mark target was ranged only. The solider and protector could get passive abilities while around warrior models. Like righteous vengeance and righteous fury. I really like those! Just now saw this post, even though I replied with my idea after lol. I really like the solider giving the swordsmen relentless charge, that would fix a lot of issues.
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Post by greyswandr on Sept 17, 2018 14:27:00 GMT
Protector could give immunity to blast damage to stuff within 3" of it. Soldier could give mark target? The Neph don't HAVE to only provide a buff to their elven counterpart. The soldier providing immunity to blast damage would be the single best buff to archers they could ask for.
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Post by dirtyharrypotter on Sept 17, 2018 15:21:08 GMT
Cool wishlisting thread I allways wanted something like this for zuriel in relation to the other nephilim (at the time I wanted him to grant "flank zuriel" to the soldiers to make them worth their while yet keeping it tricky get something out of it). Having the lesser nephilim grant similar effects to the elves is awesome. Given this idea is executed correctly I think it will solve the issues for the childer theme and it makes so much sense. Maybe he could give them the leadership ability like the bronzeback to remove a fury point when they end in his cmd? This would ease some of the burden of running them in groups. Ok now I want PP to give him a leaching mechanic. Instead of generating fury he leaches up to X per nephilim in cmd to a maximum of something at the start of his activation, which he then uses the way a warlock would. Maybe there should be a drawback to leaching more then one fury from one beast, to represent he's not a warlock and things can go awry if he pushes his felllow nephs like that.
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Post by apoc2148 on Sept 17, 2018 17:31:06 GMT
Maybe he could give them the leadership ability like the bronzeback to remove a fury point when they end in his cmd? This would ease some of the burden of running them in groups. Ok now I want PP to give him a leaching mechanic. Instead of generating fury he leaches up to X per nephilim in cmd to a maximum of something at the start of his activation, which he then uses the way a warlock would. Maybe there should be a drawback to leaching more then one fury from one beast, to represent he's not a warlock and things can go awry if he pushes his felllow nephs like that. Sounds like you are talking about a Nephilim jr warlock, that could only take other nephilim in their battle group. Maybe limit it to non-character nephilim.
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Post by davycannonhound on Sept 17, 2018 18:01:20 GMT
Idea #2
Zuriel (19 pts): Leadership [Nephilim Soldier] - Nephilim Soldiers in this model's CMD gain Dodge (Feel pretty meh about this, Fyanna already gives Dodge, so I'm kinda blah about it).
Azreal (22 pts): Leadership [Nephilim Bolt Thrower] - Nephilim Bolt Throwers in this model's CMD gain Continuous Fire on their weapons.
Nephilim Protector (10 pts): Leadership [Blighted Nyss] - Blighted Nyss in this model's CMD gain Immunity to Blast Damage.
Nephilim Soldier (?? pts): Leadership [Blighted Nyss] - Blighted Nyss in this model's CMD gain ___. (I ended up not liking Relentless Charge, as the Twins can offer that through a spell).
Nephilim Bolt Thrower (11 pts): Firing Solution [Blighted Nyss] (*Action) (Might be too powerful on Raptors, we'll see).
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rivers
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 57
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Post by rivers on Sept 17, 2018 18:07:04 GMT
All of these are cool ideas that make me sad we'll probably never see. An anti blast bubble on the Protector alone would make him well worth his points. It's just too easy to scatter AoE onto 95% of our infantry to bypass any sort of defensive tech we have. Maybe that would be too strong, but one of my local players always reminds me that I always think stuff is too good for the faction ever since the Mk3 curb stomp we got.
Also just because Twins can offer relentless charge doesn't make that bad on the Soldier, as you probably never bring him in themes that can't bring Swordsmen, and it's not as if the Twins can't run in other themes. Even in Children, not having to upkeep that frees up an extra fury for Rhyas which could easily be worth it.
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Post by chillychinaman on Sept 17, 2018 18:30:40 GMT
riversAgreed on the disappointment. The best, easiest change that PP could make that is in line with their, "vision," would probably be like (non-character?) Nephilim gain Flank[Nyss(Blighted warriors models?)]. It can easily replace the mostly useless Unyielding in theme and if it's a flat addition encourages some combined arms play in our 3-infantry heavy themes. Another lazy, less characterful solution PP could use is just to slice the costs. It's pretty depressing that some our already crappy lights cost as much as beat stick heavies in other factions.
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Post by dirtyharrypotter on Sept 17, 2018 19:42:02 GMT
Ok now I want PP to give him a leaching mechanic. Instead of generating fury he leaches up to X per nephilim in cmd to a maximum of something at the start of his activation, which he then uses the way a warlock would. Maybe there should be a drawback to leaching more then one fury from one beast, to represent he's not a warlock and things can go awry if he pushes his felllow nephs like that. Sounds like you are talking about a Nephilim jr warlock, that could only take other nephilim in their battle group. Maybe limit it to non-character nephilim. I was thinking of it like a leaching mechanic unique to the children theme (seeing how PP didn't see it fit to give us the forsaken... a model the faction is balanced around). I don't think he should be a jr warlock, because then he wouldn't be helping the actual battlegroup. There would also be little points left for units. In fact, I think all the ideas in this thread should remain theme only, replace the theme bonuses as they stand and that this is the way themes should have been build in the first place. Truly unique, fluffy, mechanics when playing in theme as an alternative to the full synergy of an entire faction. If PP wanted this to be the combined arms theme, I think this is how it should/could have been done.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Sept 18, 2018 14:05:04 GMT
Really, we need to nail down whether or not this is supposed to be a beast or infantry theme. If the former, it needs some kind of fury management, improved Nephilim light war beasts, and better theme benefits (Unyielding being largely only good on our character heavies, which probably shouldn't be the only beasts ever played in this theme). If the latter, it needs free points for infantry... And that is probably it. Obviously our infantry can hit very hard so you would only need beasts for staying power, which Unyielding can more or less help with. These aren't what it would take to make the lists GOOD, they are just what it would take to make lists functional.
Personally, I think the list should be infantry based and the Nephilim (possibly non character restricted) should all gain either "Gang" or even more interesting, the Bokur's special "Client" rule. Then the usual model revisions. I also really think that the Soldier should get Precision Strike as a targetable animus. It would really help fix Legion's anemic damage cracking in our beasts lists and it would further emphasize the "surgical strike" aspect of the army, but it would still have good counter-play since we don't really have great access to Grievous Wounds.
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Post by chainsawx on Sept 25, 2018 17:52:40 GMT
rivers Agreed on the disappointment. The best, easiest change that PP could make that is in line with their, "vision," would probably be like (non-character?) Nephilim gain Flank[Nyss(Blighted warriors models?)]. It can easily replace the mostly useless Unyielding in theme and if it's a flat addition encourages some combined arms play in our 3-infantry heavy themes. Another lazy, less characterful solution PP could use is just to slice the costs. It's pretty depressing that some our already crappy lights cost as much as beat stick heavies in other factions. Flank as a theme benefit seems a very easy fix. I like the OP's suggestions of special rules on each model but that's probably asking too much. Flank would help make a nephilim + unit spam approach (that PP obviously wants the theme to be) more palatable.
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Post by chillychinaman on Sept 26, 2018 20:19:41 GMT
Flank as a theme benefit seems a very easy fix. I like the OP's suggestions of special rules on each model but that's probably asking too much. Flank would help make a nephilim + unit spam approach (that PP obviously wants the theme to be) more palatable. There's been plenty attempts at "fixing" Nephilim. Here's a thread I made a while ago that lists some: lormahordes.freeforums.net/thread/2014/coming-theme-forces-revisionsTL;DR some more outlandish ideas can include: -CotD could stand to gain something like Nyss(non-warlock) gain SacPawn(Nephilim) -Nephilim can share animi with each other -Nephilim can share animi with Nyss
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danx
Junior Strategist
Posts: 120
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Post by danx on Sept 26, 2018 21:23:36 GMT
The Nephalim benefit unyielding is really strong. Unyielding makes soldiers pretty solid and bloodseer or protectors highly resilient.
12/20 22 boxes is good.
Slayers at 10 points are crazy good value. But they threat less and don't have flight or precise strike. Except with Gasphy3 a solider has a good chance of breaking both arms of a slayer - and costs a point less.
I really don't think Nephalim are far off good. Slayers are too good. But at 8 points with a better animus the Solider would be very good. I like the idea of Nephalim buffing each other and Nyss somehow.
The protector should be PS14. His animus would then be more useful. And he could get some more useful work done. 10 points for a shield guard guard dog is too many. Some Nyss leadership power or Girded might fix him.
The bloodseer is pretty good.
The bolt thrower seems good for the first bolt thrower, but only with Lylth. I think he is too expensive with Vayl or Saeryn. He's a strong senerio piece and he's taken alot to hit 50 points in theme, and quick work is really cool. Mark the target added on might fix him. It would make playing him forwards and making use of his quick work even more rewarding, and it would help out other ranged attacks really nicely.
I don't think the theme benifits need changing. COTD is very character full and quite interesting to build lists for.
You can build powerful things in it.
50 or 75 pointsof beasts are both valid, but it has alot of disadvantages. When it gets a CID it will be pretty awesome. Desperate pace Nyss please.
Ravens though that theme sucks. Flying beasts gain gang fighter would fix it I think.
With the theme design I appreciate the choices in Oracle's and COTD where you want to take all beasts but then you need units and have strong choices so may be you dont.
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Post by davycannonhound on Sept 26, 2018 21:27:11 GMT
The Nephalim benefit unyielding is really strong. Unyielding makes soldiers pretty solid and bloodseer or protectors highly resilient. 12/20 22 boxes is good. Slayers at 10 points are crazy good value. But they threat less and don't have flight or precise strike. Except with Gasphy3 a solider has a good chance of breaking both arms of a slayer - and costs a point less. I really don't think Nephalim are far off good. Slayers are too good. But at 8 points with a better animus the Solider would be very good. I like the idea of Nephalim buffing each other and Nyss somehow. The protector should be PS14. His animus would then be more useful. And he could get some more useful work done. 10 points for a shield guard guard dog is too many. Some Nyss leadership power or Girded might fix him. The bloodseer is pretty good. The bolt thrower seems good for the first bolt thrower, but only with Lylth. I think he is too expensive with Vayl or Saeryn. He's a strong senerio piece and he's taken alot to hit 50 points in theme, and quick work is really cool. Mark the target added on might fix him. It would make playing him forwards and making use of his quick work even more rewarding, and it would help out other ranged attacks really nicely. I don't think the theme benifits need changing. COTD is very character full and quite interesting to build lists for. You can build powerful things in it. 50 or 75 pointsof beasts are both valid, but it has alot of disadvantages. When it gets a CID it will be pretty awesome. Desperate pace Nyss please. I agree with you that the theme benefits don't need to change. My original point was that Unyielding and free points from warbeasts would make a lot more sense if the Nephilim buffed their Nyss counterparts. Not only does it mesh well with list construction, but it also tacks only nicely with the lore.
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Post by onijet01 on Sept 30, 2018 5:49:46 GMT
So ideas to this topic. (All mixed arms based)
Bolt Thrower Gun Gains Ability: Blood in the Air: cost 1 fury : while within this models cmd, friendly non-warlock nyss gain +2 movement when charging an enemy model/unit damaged by this attack.
Bloodseer Gains Ability: Arcane Resurgence: Cost 1 fury: while within this models command, friendly non-warlock nyss models get +2 to magic attack dmg rolls.
Protector Gains ability: Scals of Corruption: cost 1 fury: while within this models command, freindly non-warlock nyss models gain carapace
Soldier Gains ability: Blighted Shroud: cost 1 fury: while within this models command friendly non-warlock nyss models gain gang.
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Post by dirtyharrypotter on Sept 30, 2018 15:32:32 GMT
So ideas to this topic. (All mixed arms based) Bolt Thrower Gun Gains Ability: Blood in the Air: cost 1 fury : while within this models cmd, friendly non-warlock nyss gain +2 movement when charging an enemy model/unit damaged by this attack. Bloodseer Gains Ability: Arcane Resurgence: Cost 1 fury: while within this models command, friendly non-warlock nyss models get +2 to magic attack dmg rolls. Protector Gains ability: Scals of Corruption: cost 1 fury: while within this models command, freindly non-warlock nyss models gain carapace Soldier Gains ability: Blighted Shroud: cost 1 fury: while within this models command friendly non-warlock nyss models gain gang. Nice! I really want to play a soldier-bloodseer-hexhunter combo now... or all the light nephs, Bethayne and hexhunters really, they will crank them up to godtier.
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