Coming Theme Forces & Possible Revisions

I think CotD is fine or very close to fine now. I'm not gonna discuss what other faction have but some builds work betters in CotD than in other themes/no theme and its always worth to consider it. Allowing naga/forsaken/both would bring it up but I can live without it. Some buffs to Soldier or Legos later in the future CID can help it too.

What annoys me is the fact that S&H can be free in Oracles but not in Ravens. Why ? I usually have 14-20 free points in Oracles, 16-18 in CotD and 8 in Ravens. I really hope that possibility of 5 free cards in ravens is not the reason. That would be crapy one.

Hellmouths would be nice in Ogrun theme and they are not restricted to one only so other ideas welcome

Why not both? Seriously, Ogrun are on the rather slow side anyway, Hellmouth could fit well into their theme force.

When a decent portion of our lackluster models hit CID, it's quite likely to bring some changes. Some of the spoilered models also have potential to change Legion's game significantly. I fear that by giving Oracle-esque themes to top dog factions, Legion will suffer again, as the main way we survive tournaments atm is by playing with significantly more pts than our opponents.
But imho blind guessing is pointless, so I won't participate in that and patiently wait for more info instead.



Why should anyone sacrifice their awesome Swordsmen for lackluster Nephilim beasts? Only exceptions are Azriel and maybe Zuriel. CoD is a strange case... our non-character beasts are overall only okayish but without them we lack to much too... So more beast options is a easy fix and including both Azriel and Zuriel was a step in the right direction. I'm not sure how far to go with that though.

The latest CoD lists are purely reactive lists to solve specific matchups. They don't ask questions, they answer specific ones. That's also why they highly depend on your meta and will vanish instantly as soon as those question don't pop up as frequently anymore.

Well, just trying to be creative here:
I would hope PP would try to use Free Point reward sparingly (if at all) and would rather see some sort of unique bonus instead. But I doubt that would be the case with the theme revisions (which ever those may be) or new themes.

But as far as changes or suggestions
Oracles - I don't know if it was intended to be the 'Magic Theme' but if it was, I would like for it to be adjusted to reflect that. Maybe have the benefits include +2 to Attack Rolls with magic attacks or allow beasts to cast a spell once for free. Note, by doing so, you most likely weaken its power balance if you take a way free points. I ABSOLUTELY want a 'beast theme' (hell, that is what got me into LoE) and free fury support should be included there (lacking a rebalance of our beasts).

Children - the move to include Azrael is awesome, Zuriel is still a lack-lustrous beast to me. I think it was a miss to not include B+B here. I like the selection of troops but I think some changes to the benefits would be great.
*if Neph Solider = gains weapon master
*if Neph Protector = gains a no knockdown aura equal to his cmd range or b2b
*if Neph Bloodseer = cast fist spell for free
you get where I'm going. Or even if you followed the Bloodseer model where it has Telematry. What if the other Neph gave out some passive boost (Solider = overtake, Bolt Thrower = snipe or whatever to nearby troops)

Ravens - this theme just feels like an excuse to lure peeps to buy more G.Raiders. I would like to see it give a bonus all Striders (acrobatics) and Gargoyles (ambush). The theme behind this is quick strikes and get out. I don't know if it really can capture this gorilla combat with what the selections/benefits are.

Yet to be created:
Ogrun Theme - this is already coming. I hope this really makes BB an option because I have one and miss using it (I also hope it gets re-evaluated since it is lacking but that isn't this discussion). I really look forward to using WarSpears again and the Chosen has me giddy with excitement.

Tentacle theme - this has to happen. Hellmouths, throne and Protus... and whatever else we can get. Yes, let the hentai jokes come in but this is a theme I want to see happen.

Beast theme* - if any monkeying with OoA happens, we need a theme for beasts or a little bit of a review on the beasts as a whole (concerning the Carnivean chassy -looking at you Sycthean buddy- and lessers and Zuriel and... I can keep going)

Swarm theme - yes... lessers. Even something as silly as free Beast Mistresses.

I'm sure I can keep coming up with more bad ideas.

I think we will get something where we can take:

SPD 5 warrior units, and hellmouth.
Non-flying warbeasts. May be just SPD 4 and 5 warbeasts.

Theme benefits based on ogryn/units.
2" extra deploy or advance move, and a unit buff.


And that's it.



Our existing themes.
OoA needs more solo choices and units. (See christmas.cid )
Children is ok, but I crutch on Naga and serpah very much. So Kallus2 works ok. I've had success with Kryssa too, but it's a terrible drop into good upkeeps. New solo in October. Weirdly I wish list could take afflictors. With unyielding the nephalim are nearly reasonable value. 9 points for a 13/18 precise striking soldier is starting to be useful.
Ravens. Grotesque swarm is fun. I loved angelius/Nerpah builds with this, but expensive solos not counting towards free points really limits this I think, plus Oracle's getting better free stuff overshadowed this, plus no shepherds.

Also plus 1 to starting roll is a bad benefit for the game, as is removing advanced deploy. I think I'd rather +2" deployment, or -2 inch deployment for opponent.

CotD and Ravens are good themes, but they are more useful/focused/ better for infantry lists than they are for beast lists. This is something that I feel that a lot of Legion players struggle with because, raise your hands, how many people started playing the faction for the infantry? Very few if any. Not to mention in MKII, Legion was the premiere beast heavy faction. We're not that anymore.Which is also why Oracles is so popular, because one can play the beast heavy style they wanted to when they picked up legion. What I'm trying to say is that before you discount the themes as they are, try taking a different approach to building the lists. Try out building CotD or Ravens and Only fill out the Free Beast points from the warlock, use the entire 75 (or 50 or whatever) for infantry or solos.

CotD is fine. The ability to include Azreal or Zuriel with any caster was the only real change the theme needed. The infantry are supposed to be the work models in the list where the beasts are the support/clean-up. I would like to see some improvements on the soldier (a functional animus and/or WM) and the Protector (no KD animus back plz). Other than that I personally really like the theme as is, Particularly with Kryssa, Rhyas1 and Thags2. Including the non nephilim warbeasts is too far away from the theme, even more so than taking minions in the list IMO.

Ravens is fine. Ambushing grots are amazing pieces to use, raptors and strider rangers are fun and effective. However, this theme as I see it functions best as BG light. The current list I'm playing with Lyl2 has a seraph, an NBT and a Naga. That's it. The work models in the list are the two units of raptors, the grots and Lylyth. I do agree that I'd like the S&H to be free in theme but It's worth taking as a pseudo CA for rangers, effectively giving them sniper. I like the theme even more with the advent of SR17, because ambush is such a powerful rule on at least two of the scenarios.

TL;DR,  I believe that the reason people have problems with CotD and Ravens is because they want to play beast lists and they can't.

If the themes are as viable as you say, why aren't more people taking them as part of their tournament pairings? I know its a smaller sub-set, but a quick glance at the DGI tournament results shows most Oracles dominating the list building compositions with a spattering of out of theme, CotD, and Ravens.

I said in my original post. perhaps this line alone should have been the TL;DR, that's my fault.