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Post by onijet01 on Sept 30, 2018 17:55:06 GMT
So ideas to this topic. (All mixed arms based) Bolt Thrower Gun Gains Ability: Blood in the Air: cost 1 fury : while within this models cmd, friendly non-warlock nyss gain +2 movement when charging an enemy model/unit damaged by this attack. Bloodseer Gains Ability: Arcane Resurgence: Cost 1 fury: while within this models command, friendly non-warlock nyss models get +2 to magic attack dmg rolls. Protector Gains ability: Scals of Corruption: cost 1 fury: while within this models command, freindly non-warlock nyss models gain carapace Soldier Gains ability: Blighted Shroud: cost 1 fury: while within this models command friendly non-warlock nyss models gain gang. Nice! I really want to play a soldier-bloodseer-hexhunter combo now... or all the light nephs, Bethayne and hexhunters really, they will crank them up to godtier. Thanks i was thinking of nyss bosts id like to see (as warmongers are powerful enough), but with a bslanced activation ability
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Post by davycannonhound on Sept 30, 2018 21:41:10 GMT
So ideas to this topic. (All mixed arms based) Bolt Thrower Gun Gains Ability: Blood in the Air: cost 1 fury : while within this models cmd, friendly non-warlock nyss gain +2 movement when charging an enemy model/unit damaged by this attack. Bloodseer Gains Ability: Arcane Resurgence: Cost 1 fury: while within this models command, friendly non-warlock nyss models get +2 to magic attack dmg rolls. Protector Gains ability: Scals of Corruption: cost 1 fury: while within this models command, freindly non-warlock nyss models gain carapace Soldier Gains ability: Blighted Shroud: cost 1 fury: while within this models command friendly non-warlock nyss models gain gang. All of these seem a bit powerful, and would all result in a massive jump in points. But, thats just my opinion. That said, even with relative power level, Carapace is too powerful, and doesn't really make sense. Blood in the Air doesn't really make sense imo either, and I'd like to see the Bolt Thrower support ranged units specifically.
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Post by apoc2148 on Oct 1, 2018 11:16:17 GMT
So ideas to this topic. (All mixed arms based) Bolt Thrower Gun Gains Ability: Blood in the Air: cost 1 fury : while within this models cmd, friendly non-warlock nyss gain +2 movement when charging an enemy model/unit damaged by this attack. Bloodseer Gains Ability: Arcane Resurgence: Cost 1 fury: while within this models command, friendly non-warlock nyss models get +2 to magic attack dmg rolls. Protector Gains ability: Scals of Corruption: cost 1 fury: while within this models command, freindly non-warlock nyss models gain carapace Soldier Gains ability: Blighted Shroud: cost 1 fury: while within this models command friendly non-warlock nyss models gain gang. Most of these are pretty cool ideas. I'm not sure about the bolt-thrower though. With the ranged attack having thunderbolt, you could potentially push the targeted model further away than the extra 2" of movement is granting.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Oct 1, 2018 13:49:20 GMT
I think some of the problem with Nephilim is really a problem that exists for almost all light war beasts (not jacks): they simply aren't very good. Usually the only time you see them in lists is for utility animus, or in the occasional list that has Synergy or some other ridiculous Field Marshal. There are exceptions of course, but the vast majority of tournament lists simply do not run them unless they have some kind of utility function. Shooting light beasts work out okay sometimes, but those lists aren't very common.
I think some of this is endemic to the way Fury vs Focus works. It becomes extremely difficult to run lots of beasts without lots fury management. Since both the fury management and the beast-buffs out there are fairly limited, they are usually better spent on supporting your heavies instead of your lights. Of course, Children of the Dragon only compounds these issues by denying access to heavy war beasts and removing access to your best fury managers (Forsaken). So you end up with an army that (points wise) is supposed to be primarily composed of fury inefficient models that are best used as utility beasts. That's why the only time you ever see it run in tournaments is with character beast spam.
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danx
Junior Strategist
Posts: 120
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Post by danx on Oct 1, 2018 16:38:03 GMT
I agree as you force beasts, forcing an AA or a Carnivian to buy additional Power 18+ attacks is much more valuable than spending fury to buy power 12 attacks with Nephalim protectors. The fact power up exists makes a light jack require no resource to do some work, far in excess of a light beast.
Light beasts do work well with global buffs though. Like Incite, Abby2, Kryssa. Where you don't need to assign as much/anything to them to get some work. Finally, if your beast is likely to die - or be engaged deep in the enemy lines, if it frenzies that's OK often. Take an afflictor. It might charge in go to 3 fury, its got a fair chance of just frenzying - which is a boosted attack hopefully on an enemy. if it doesn't frenzy its almost worse, you still have the fury and you don't get a free boost. Worst case your opponent might play around it and get it to Frenzy at some of your beasts - but it isn't very likely. You don't need to manage the fury on any of our light beasts - as none of them are that dangerous if they Frenzy (Terpahs and Bloodseers are the worst due to crit effects)
So Children of the dragon, I've ran quite a lot with 4 soldiers, a blood seer and some lights. And 3 shepherds and kryssa. You camp as much as you like. You make sure you can charge for free with a Hellion, and either: The Charge is all the work you take - for zero fury. Or you just don't care and let everything frenzy.
I have managed to cripple 4 Slayers under Gaaspy's feat turn only spending 1 Fury on my beasts.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Oct 1, 2018 18:34:38 GMT
In WTC 2018, there were exactly zero lists that took more than one non-character Nephilim. Of the 60 lists, 7 of them had 1 Nephilim light beast. 4 Bolt Throwers, 2 Bloodseer, and 1 Protector, and 0 Soldiers.
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Post by chillychinaman on Oct 1, 2018 18:53:50 GMT
In WTC 2018, there were exactly zero lists that took more than one non-character Nephilim. Of the 60 lists, 7 of them had 1 Nephilim light beast. 4 Bolt Throwers, 2 Bloodseer, and 1 Protector, and 0 Soldiers. And how many of those Bolt Throwers weren't with Lylyth or Vayl?
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Oct 1, 2018 19:47:35 GMT
In WTC 2018, there were exactly zero lists that took more than one non-character Nephilim. Of the 60 lists, 7 of them had 1 Nephilim light beast. 4 Bolt Throwers, 2 Bloodseer, and 1 Protector, and 0 Soldiers. And how many of those Bolt Throwers weren't with Lylyth or Vayl? Zero.
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Post by chillychinaman on Oct 3, 2018 17:23:45 GMT
The Skorne's Cyclops Brute, their Protector equivalent was included in the CID that started today. It is comparable to our beast with the main differences being an extra initial attack and trading guard dog for Safe Guard. Yet somehow, it has been 8pts. Is Guard Dog really that powerful an ability?
I really agree with gordo's early post about buying attacks on a light being worth much less than with a heavy. At the least, a light can hope for multiple initials like Satyrs or Griffons. In this vein, I'd like to see the Soldier gain an Open Fist attack for an extra initial as well as gaining access to throw attacks.
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Post by apoc2148 on Oct 3, 2018 19:26:54 GMT
The Skorne's Cyclops Brute, their Protector equivalent was included in the CID that started today. It is comparable to our beast with the main differences being an extra initial attack and trading guard dog for Safe Guard. Yet somehow, it has been 8pts. Is Guard Dog really that powerful an ability? I really agree with gordo's early post about buying attacks on a light being worth much less than with a heavy. At the least, a light can hope for multiple initials like Satyrs or Griffons. In this vein, I'd like to see the Soldier gain an Open Fist attack for an extra initial as well as gaining access to throw attacks. The solider could get rapid strike, that would up its use against infantry and allow it to at least get extra attacks against hardier targets. I really hope all the Nephilim get a CID.
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Post by chillychinaman on Oct 3, 2018 20:13:36 GMT
The Skorne's Cyclops Brute, their Protector equivalent was included in the CID that started today. It is comparable to our beast with the main differences being an extra initial attack and trading guard dog for Safe Guard. Yet somehow, it has been 8pts. Is Guard Dog really that powerful an ability? I really agree with gordo's early post about buying attacks on a light being worth much less than with a heavy. At the least, a light can hope for multiple initials like Satyrs or Griffons. In this vein, I'd like to see the Soldier gain an Open Fist attack for an extra initial as well as gaining access to throw attacks. The solider could get rapid strike, that would up its use against infantry and allow it to at least get extra attachs against hardier targets. I really hope all the Nephilim get a CID. Rapid strike would be nice, especially combined with the Sorceress for 3 damage-boosted, precise attacks.
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Post by onijet01 on Oct 4, 2018 10:39:16 GMT
Im working on a list that uses lights almost exclusively, got a crazy idea about non theme minion and blasting beasts..
Grr hate being at work
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