germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
|
Post by germanicus on Jul 25, 2018 15:29:04 GMT
Week 3 update... G4 small buff to feat, Ravyn 28 WJ Pts, Forges can take the Trident (liek wut?!) and Legions got benefits revised (replace Flank on marshal'd jacks to what is effectively Tactician: Dawnguard for all jacks and +2 SPD on first turn with Advance Move for one jack per unit/battle engine).
Colour me... whelmed... -_-
|
|
|
Post by hocestbellum on Jul 25, 2018 15:45:34 GMT
Week 3 update... Forges can take the Trident (liek wut?!) To be honest, given that it's being levitated by Arcanists and has the whole telekinesis thing going on, if it didn't have 'Dawnguard' in the name I'd have assumed it belonged in Forges.
|
|
|
Post by forthehorde on Jul 25, 2018 15:50:43 GMT
Basically our jack marshal theme just got shelved into an infantry theme. No point in marshalling.
|
|
faelin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 121
|
Post by faelin on Jul 25, 2018 19:13:06 GMT
@work so I don't have all my log in info. I liked flank. Made Jack marshells worth it. Did they give a reason?
|
|
|
Post by etheric42 on Jul 25, 2018 19:50:03 GMT
They did not, other than the 2" +spd was too powerful in scenario so they mentioned in the twitch dev chat that they wanted to keep the focus on how the dawnguard work closely with warjacks so they changed both bonuses to be general warjack related (instead of marshalled warjack and nothing to do with warjacks).
I think this change is a good one (my battle reports mentioned tactician on the marshalled jacks would have made them easier to use). It can be used on marshalled jacks and on unmarshalled ones, so if you think jack marshal rules are in a good place you can still use them, but if you don't want to spend the out-of-theme points or have a theme benefit tied to the scyir/artificer and arcanists, you still have a use for this power.
If jack marshals get a comprehensive CID later down the line, I doubt the theme benefit would have remained anyway.
I liked having two scyir's in my lists, but now I'm going to have to really think about it.
|
|
|
Post by mcdermott on Jul 25, 2018 21:53:48 GMT
Basically our jack marshal theme just got shelved into an infantry theme. No point in marshalling. TBH if a jack marshall theme doesn't have both as many different marshals as mercs AND a benefit like that its probably not going to make marshalling worth it. Improvements or no its just rough to have 15+ points tied up in something killing 4-5ish points neutralizes
|
|
isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
|
Post by isotope on Jul 26, 2018 1:40:25 GMT
They did not, other than the 2" +spd was too powerful in scenario so they mentioned in the twitch dev chat that they wanted to keep the focus on how the dawnguard work closely with warjacks so they changed both bonuses to be general warjack related (instead of marshalled warjack and nothing to do with warjacks). I think this change is a good one (my battle reports mentioned tactician on the marshalled jacks would have made them easier to use). It can be used on marshalled jacks and on unmarshalled ones, so if you think jack marshal rules are in a good place you can still use them, but if you don't want to spend the out-of-theme points or have a theme benefit tied to the scyir/artificer and arcanists, you still have a use for this power. If jack marshals get a comprehensive CID later down the line, I doubt the theme benefit would have remained anyway. I liked having two scyir's in my lists, but now I'm going to have to really think about it. I'd like to see dawnguard warrior models give gang with our jacks... makes way more sense than AM warjacks...
|
|
germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
|
Post by germanicus on Jul 26, 2018 2:18:12 GMT
I'd like to see dawnguard warrior models give gang with our jacks... makes way more sense than AM warjacks... AFAIK most, if not all (I think Sons of the Tempest is the exception), themes will have four distinct benefits, two of which are synonymous, but the other two are based on turn 1/deployment only and the other is ongoing. Reverse Gang-fighter (I guess?) would be the latter and stacked with Tactician: Dawnguard for the jacks, it may be a bit much. It'd have to be replaced with a deployment or move buff as they've tried various iterations for. I think they could easily have fixed the +2 SPD issue by just applying it to small/medium based Dawnguard models (seriously, I want Vyros1 to be good...!) and that would have been perfectly fine IMO. This raises questions for the Ret player about how they want to build their list as it means the entire army is threatening more or less the same degree from the off, instead of Destors and the Trident being shoved down your opponent's throat either completely psyking them out, or if they know what they're doing, taking said Dawnguard elements off the board. *shrug* I'll probably proxy a mirror match of some sort (Vyros1 and LoD, but not necessarily V1 in LoD...) and see...
|
|
isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
|
Post by isotope on Jul 26, 2018 3:22:58 GMT
I'd like to see dawnguard warrior models give gang with our jacks... makes way more sense than AM warjacks... AFAIK most, if not all (I think Sons of the Tempest is the exception), themes will have four distinct benefits, two of which are synonymous, but the other two are based on turn 1/deployment only and the other is ongoing. Reverse Gang-fighter (I guess?) would be the latter and stacked with Tactician: Dawnguard for the jacks, it may be a bit much. It'd have to be replaced with a deployment or move buff as they've tried various iterations for. I think they could easily have fixed the +2 SPD issue by just applying it to small/medium based Dawnguard models (seriously, I want Vyros1 to be good...!) and that would have been perfectly fine IMO. This raises questions for the Ret player about how they want to build their list as it means the entire army is threatening more or less the same degree from the off, instead of Destors and the Trident being shoved down your opponent's throat either completely psyking them out, or if they know what they're doing, taking said Dawnguard elements off the board. *shrug* I'll probably proxy a mirror match of some sort (Vyros1 and LoD, but not necessarily V1 in LoD...) and see... I think it would be cool. Maybe take the mechaniks out of the theme to balance it? Basically frees up 6 more points that way in list design and differentiates it in a kind of way like dawnguard sayin " we dont need no conc power, we awesome with the jacks without em"
|
|
|
Post by onijet01 on Jul 26, 2018 4:28:08 GMT
I'd like to see dawnguard warrior models give gang with our jacks... makes way more sense than AM warjacks... AFAIK most, if not all (I think Sons of the Tempest is the exception), themes will have four distinct benefits, two of which are synonymous, but the other two are based on turn 1/deployment only and the other is ongoing. Reverse Gang-fighter (I guess?) would be the latter and stacked with Tactician: Dawnguard for the jacks, it may be a bit much. It'd have to be replaced with a deployment or move buff as they've tried various iterations for. I think they could easily have fixed the +2 SPD issue by just applying it to small/medium based Dawnguard models (seriously, I want Vyros1 to be good...!) and that would have been perfectly fine IMO. This raises questions for the Ret player about how they want to build their list as it means the entire army is threatening more or less the same degree from the off, instead of Destors and the Trident being shoved down your opponent's throat either completely psyking them out, or if they know what they're doing, taking said Dawnguard elements off the board. *shrug* I'll probably proxy a mirror match of some sort (Vyros1 and LoD, but not necessarily V1 in LoD...) and see... A point Vyros 1 is already very good but he takes a skill cap to play. He brings quite a few tools that make his good with an armor buff, a mobility spell, 2 attack spells (one can generate fucus after allocation situationally good vs certain models. One that on damage makes opoonents forfit action or movement good vs battle engines and solos) and he brings vengence on a stick. His feat requires infantry for optimum effect but thats not hard and he himself is no pushover. The dauwnguard theme did get a bit rediculous with flanking gryphons (players faults) and destors who at stats 15(polirity feild) 19 (deceleration) and 13(melee) 19(unyealding) vould run with pathfinder 20 inches on top of 1 for a 27 inch push to block zones backed by Vyros 2 feat to allow movement on opponents turn was bonkers to play. Personally i felt flank friendly daunguard to be a bit to powerful as the jack marsial never had to expose themselves. If they want to balance the benifit just go flank (friendly jackmartial) and call it good as now we can have 4 in the theme
|
|
germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
|
Post by germanicus on Jul 26, 2018 14:04:47 GMT
A point Vyros 1 is already very good but he takes a skill cap to play. He brings quite a few tools that make his good with an armor buff, a mobility spell, 2 attack spells (one can generate fucus after allocation situationally good vs certain models. One that on damage makes opoonents forfit action or movement good vs battle engines and solos) and he brings vengence on a stick. Eh, I would dub Vyros1 as mediocre... he has a solid suite of support spells, but his approach is very one dimensional and is the Ret's equivalent of the meme worthy Khador 'apply axe to face, and if that doesn't work, apply more axe to face', except that Vyros' axe only works only once. Hyperbole acknowledged, even in my own lists as I take Imps and two heavy beaters and two light beaters, but the fact remains that for most players of my skill level (i.e. pure utter unadulterated dog shite), he has one tactical approach and not much else (and that's mostly Stranglehold). Indeed he is not, but he is still pretty easy to kill and his personal output is predicated on a jack being close. Good play can ensure it, true, but as a game developes, not guaranteed. A point of debate, definitely, so eh... Not sure what you mean by 'player's(') faults' and 'polarity field', and I'm guessing you mean the old +2 SPD on Dawnguard theme benefit, which I'll agree on for Destors. That was a touch ridiculous, hence why I'd like it back, but only for small/medium based Dawnguard models (all of which are either SPD 5 or don't exist...(!) so this is by no means excessive). Did you try that out, incidentally? Yes they did if you wanted to take advantage of the jack marshal abilities which were part of the draw, as well as contribute to scenario (pressure). What would essentially be autonomous jacks with Flank seems a bit... odd... Quandary: keep the jack marshal safe, no Flank? Or position to get flank, run risk of dead marshal real early before the Flank can be relevant (and be decidedly inflexible)? My first thought is that this affords the worst of both worlds since the jacks don't contribute to free models and two of the marshals are typically candidates as free models.
|
|
|
Post by forthehorde on Jul 26, 2018 15:53:15 GMT
I think just adding gang fighter on the Marshalled jacks instead of flank would've been fine.
Problem with this new theme is that you're advance moving your jacks, at speed 6, and giving them the ability to LOS through your dawnguard at speed 5. One of these is wasted.
Vyros 1 is much better in defenders than dawn guard imo. Halbers deliver themselves for feat turn. He doesn't have any speed boosts for dawnguard and especially with the new theme they'd be left far behind.
|
|
isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
|
Post by isotope on Jul 26, 2018 21:14:22 GMT
Ambush!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
|
|
|
Post by etheric42 on Jul 26, 2018 21:31:17 GMT
Hot off the presses! Pagani trolls the Ret community. Promises to let them ambush for the next four days, but in exchange TAKES THEIR SOUL.
*Ahem*
I mean:
Advanced move on warjacks gone. Instead legions gets +1 starting roll.
+1 starting roll gone from shadows. Instead shadows gets one ambushing, no CA infiltrator unit.
|
|
skormedlover87
Junior Strategist
Desperately searching for days off to game...
Posts: 517
|
Post by skormedlover87 on Jul 27, 2018 1:13:59 GMT
^^^^^ I was actually hoping for more elves with soulless rule while reading that...
|
|