bluebeard
Junior Strategist
crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women
Posts: 293
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Post by bluebeard on Jul 18, 2018 21:42:54 GMT
Of all the changea, I have only really read or heard about Dawnguard based themes. Has anyone tested how the new Forges of War changes are going? I'm specifically interested in Rahn with Battlemages and Artificers. With the point reduction of the Hyperion and Phoenix, I'm thinking it could be amazing with scenario and board control. Anyone else?
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Post by Gaston on Jul 19, 2018 0:47:03 GMT
Just played Kaelyssa in Forges as a control caster, went well.
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Jul 19, 2018 0:49:13 GMT
Just played Kaelyssa in Forges as a control caster, went well. I'd like to try kaelyssa in legions of dawn with the new changes. Refuge on imperatus is fun.
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Post by Gaston on Jul 19, 2018 0:50:09 GMT
Just played Kaelyssa in Forges as a control caster, went well. I'd like to try kaelyssa in legions of dawn with the new changes. Refuge on imperatus is fun. I am a wuss and always keep it on her, lol.
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bluebeard
Junior Strategist
crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women
Posts: 293
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Post by bluebeard on Jul 19, 2018 1:32:00 GMT
Just played Kaelyssa in Forges as a control caster, went well. I'd like to try kaelyssa in legions of dawn with the new changes. Refuge on imperatus is fun. Screw your LoD Isotope! Lol, j/k bud Just run both Hyperion and Helios and all the mage's into zones and laugh while scoring. Maybe kill some stuff while your at it, But in a serious remark mode: please try some more Forges, and if it's not too much trouble; post a bat rep? I'm unable to at the moment, life and all that.
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Post by onijet01 on Jul 19, 2018 1:56:55 GMT
I am hopping to try a legion od daen list this sunday with the new cid changes but my list needs alittle work as i can not place all i want into the list. (Well i can just no jack martialed jacks of i do)
Vyros 2 (+27wjp). Legion of dawn 75pts. Fane Knight Guardian (4pts) Hydra (15wjp) Hydra (12wjp-3pts)
Dawnguard Destors ×5 (20pts) Dawnguard Destors ×5 (20pts) Destor Thane (7pts) Destor Thane (7pts) House Shyeel Artificer (free) - Aspis (6pts) House Shyeel Artificer (free) - Aspis (6pts) Achanist (2pts)
It is a stupid list ment to leverage the destors in combat. The units are able to gain stats as a base 13/19 vs melee and 15/19 vs ranged. At spd 10 first turn they are easily able to lock down zones vs all but the fastes ad armies. The lists idea is tp pin your opponent down for two turns with destors leveraging movement on vyros 2 feat.
Sense vyros 2 is so lacking in focus (seriously asome toolkits but huge disadvantage as two spellc cost 3, one very good upkeep and 2 other situational spells he is super focus starved. So instead of my original choice of 3 gryphons and a aspis i went with two hydras whom can benifit most from piwerup and shooting through models.
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Jul 19, 2018 2:25:47 GMT
I don't have enough non character shyeel jacks to play in forges. I do have a CID forges list for helynnna that has potential.
Retribution Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Forges of War (CID)
!!! Your army contains CID entries. !!! You are using a pre-release theme.
[Helynna 1] Magister Helynna [+30] - Chimera [8] - Griffon [8] - Helios [34] - Manticore [14] - Manticore [14] - Sylys Wyshnalyrr, the Seeker [0(4)] Arcanist Mechanik [2] Arcanist Mechanik [2] Arcanist Mechanik [2] Eilish Garrity, the Occultist [5] House Shyeel Magister [0(4)] House Shyeel Magister [0(4)] House Shyeel Battle Mages [8] House Shyeel Battle Mages [8]
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Post by Gaston on Jul 19, 2018 3:17:57 GMT
Kaelyssa, Forges of War -Helios Arcanist Arcanist Arcanist Elara, Tyro of the Third Chamber -Gorgon -Gorgon Artificer -Manticore Artificer -Manticore Battle Mages -Soulless Battle Mages -Soulless
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Post by etheric42 on Jul 19, 2018 15:10:24 GMT
Soooo... a marshalled gorgon assassinated Baldur1 last night... and then I posted the game on CID.
A) When they nerf the gorgon because of my batrep, where do I turn in my pointy ears?
B) What is an appropriate trophy I can mod onto the model and name/title for the Baldur-killing gorgon?
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germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
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Post by germanicus on Jul 19, 2018 15:27:18 GMT
Soooo... a marshalled gorgon assassinated Baldur1 last night... and then I posted the game on CID. A) When they nerf the gorgon because of my batrep, where do I turn in my pointy ears? B) What is an appropriate trophy I can mod onto the model and name/title for the Baldur-killing gorgon? A - the community collectively heaves a sigh of resignation... then gets on with their lives! =P B - if you have the fine freehand painting skills, paint a Circle symbol on his shoulder, or buy a Baldur mini and strap its (petrified, 'cos we've got to stay on theme!) head to the Gorgon's waist...! I'd say the sickest thing you can do is for the Gorgon to be holding Baldur's transformed head and the blood dripping from the neck is mid-transformation from blood to stone, but that'll be a pretty difficult thing to do off the top of my head, though no doubt you can find a way.
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Post by Gaston on Jul 19, 2018 16:59:10 GMT
I have always adored Forges of War, it is a fantastically flexible theme that can be run with nearly any caster successfully. In this instance I wanted to go heavy into control:
Kaelyssa, Forges of War -Helios Arcanist Arcanist Arcanist Elara, Tyro of the Third Chamber -Gorgon -Gorgon Artificer -Manticore Artificer -Manticore Battle Mages -Soulless Battle Mages -Soulless
The design of the list is to delay and piecemeal your opponent’s army. The two Gorgons can spray two targets for -2 Spd then Speed of Death backwards 6” for a total distance between target and jack of 14”. Additionally on Kaelyssa’s feat turn they cannot be charged, making for a -5 swing in threat range.
The Manticores assist with infantry control via Covering Fire or D3 shots. The jack marshal can take them up to Rat 7 for clearing infantry. Additionally, they become Pow 18 with Force Generator, Pow 20 with Concentrated Power, and Pow 22 with Crush.
Helios layers control on the list with the Tractor Beam gun allowing you to reposition enemy models. Additionally it can make up for the lack of an Arcanist unit via Broadcast Power. Kaelyssa can Phantom Hunter it to ignore LoS.
The Battle Mages can help clear out infantry with either magical bolts or x2 melee attacks. Kaelyssa can Stationary an opponent’s warjack, at which point it is easy to hit and pull it in.
Went up against Mercenaries:
Drake McBain, Irregulars -Sylys -Buccaneer -Freebooter -Mangler -Nomad Dirty Meg -Vanguard Kell Bailoch Orin Midwinter Ragman Rhupert Acosta Thor -Basher Tinker Tinker Croe’s Cutthroats (max) Blythe and Bull
I won the roll, elected to go first.
Kae Turn 1: Everything runs up, more or less. Refugee on Kaelyssa, Blur on left Battle Mages, Banishing Ward on Helios, Speed of Death on Elara.
Drake Turn 1: Fail Safe on the Freebooter, Countermeasures on the Cutthroats, running. Rhupert toughs the Cutthroats.
Kae Turn 2: Kaelyssa only upkeeps Refuge on herself. She puts Phantom Hunter on herself and Helios, shoots Failsafe off the Freebooter, Stationaries it, Stationaries the Nomad, Refuges back, feats. Right Battle Mages move up, burn through Orin’s 3 tokens and drag the Freebooter forward twice (one was snake eyes). Gorgon moves up and sprays a Cutthroat, he toughs. Battle Mages sneak the Nomad around the building. Helios drags the Nomad in, shoots and scoots the Freebooter forward more, moves the Mangler 3” back. Helios kills Nomad. Manitcore kills Freebooter. Other Manticore drops a covering fire template. Artificer puts Force Barrier on left battle mages.
Drake Turn 2: Mangler runs around the central obstruction. McBain puts Fortune on the Cutthroats, Engerizers, tries to jackhammer via the Mangler into the Manticore, doesn’t do much damage due to dice. He feats on 10 models, Acosta, Sylys, Ragman, Bull, and 4 Cutthroats, and others. Cutthroats shoot up 3 Battle Mages, repo in to jam. Basher runs in to jam, as does Buccaneer. CP: 0-1
Kae Turn 3: Gorgon aims and sprays 3 Cutthroats, 2 get KD from McBain feat. Artificer Magna Bolts one of the KD guys, pushing jamming Cutthroats back, away from Gorgon #2. This allows the remaining Battle Mages to melee down 2 of the non-feated Cutthroats. Gorgon #2 sprays 2 Cutthroats then Speed of Deaths over to lock down Acosta. On the right side, Battle Mages reposition themselves, 2 die to free strikes. One beats back the Basher, 2 more pull it back in. This allows the Manticore to engage it, leaving it ⅔ dead. The Artificer combo smites the Buc, but only slams it 2”, so not as dramatic as hoped. Helios and the other Manticore kill the Mangler. Kaelyssa puts 4 damage on a Tinker. CP: 0-2
Drake Turn 3: Acosta beats up on a Gorgon, leaves it on 3 with cortex and arm. Vanguard jams into Helios. Buc shoots and KDs an Arcanist. Orin eleaps 2 Arcanists to death. Basher scoots in and flak fields 4 Battle Mages to death. A bunch of various things put 8 damage on my objective. CP: 0-3
Kae Turn 4: I am doing fine on attrition, but scenario is getting away from me badly. Elara apparates forward, kills 2 Cutthroats, allocates the focus. Gorgon #1 boosts a swing on Acosta, misses and dies. Gorgon #2 sprays Sylys, 2 Cutthroats and Bull, kills Sylys and Bull, freeing the flag. Helios goes into the Vanguard, only hits it once because needing 7’s. Manticore beats on the Buc, leaving it on 5 health. Right Manticore finishes off the Basher. Artificer Magna Bolts at Thor, misses (trying to clear zone). Kae aims and kills the Tinker to free up my flag, Stationaries the Buc and knocks out it’s cortex. CP: 3-1
Drake Turn 4: A bunch of stuff scoots around, but basically he kills my objective and scores his flag, contests my flag. CP: 5-1
Kae Turn 5: Helios fails all over the Vanguard again, only connecting once. It does succeed in pulling Carvolo off the flag. Elara kills off Dirty Meg and a Cutthroat. Gorgon kills the Vanguard from behind (finally). Manticore puts 5 damage on McBaine, putting him on notice. Artificer kills Thor. Manticore kills Orin. Kae kills Kell. CP: 5-3
As I am way ahead on attrition and have caught up on CP to prevent a scenario win, my opponent concedes.
Forges of War: Green-ish. As I said, I love, love this theme and strongly disagree with anyone who says that it is just a theme for Rahn. It is so good and so much fun and the models that are allowed in it synergize to form some of the most fun that a person can have in this game. I appreciate that all Shyeel models/units count towards free solos, one thing I would offer up is that the Arcanist Mechanik unit be allowed as a theme benefit as well. Even if it is from Week 1, allowing Elara in the theme has been wonderful as well.
Artificer: Green. Random comment: Any reason why this guy magic ability 6? Aren’t solos ordinarily +1 stat over basic guys (in this case Battle Mages)?
Battle Mages: Yellow-Green. Another unit and part of this theme that is so fantastic, they are why I started playing Retribution. How incredible they are at board control cannot be overstated, they basically allow free piece trades and all your opponent gets to do is retaliate against a couple single wound models--in this game specifically I got 2 heavies for 3 Battle Mages as a piece trade. I literally cannot gush about them enough.
That being said, I do fall into the camp that prefers how they were pre-CID. This game was fairly consistent with how they have played for me the entire time I have played Ret, they keep to the flanks, pull things in, they get picked on here and there. At no point in this game did they get charged or use Set Defense, at every point they were either shot at or already in melee with whatever swung on them. I understand that part of the change from Force Barrier to Set Defense was that it was moved over to the Artificer, which makes sense, but I also do feel that that change takes away from the Artificer as well. He has a fantastic swathe of tools beyond just giving Battle Mages back their old abilities, and it would be great to be able to use him guilt free, so to speak. In this game the Artificers were in it, with Combo smite and Magna Bolt. I had another instance where I wanted to use Magna Bolt as well, but passed just because the odds of hitting were low (cover on a Tinkerer). So many great tools.
Gorgon: Green, I like the sprays. The pair of Gorgons managed to do a fair amount of work this game, accounting for: -Sylys -Bull -Vanguard -5ish Cuttthroats -Locking up Acosta I did not think to check the spray ranges on Turn 2, it is very possible I could have clipped the Mangler with the -2 Spd spray prior to pushing him back with Helios. Ultimately the debuff did not play a significant factor in the game. Of note with the Gorgons is that at 9 points they do still feel quite pricey and once a model starts attacking them, the fold very quickly.
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Post by etheric42 on Jul 19, 2018 19:03:49 GMT
Artificers are magic ability 7 this week.
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Post by Gaston on Jul 19, 2018 20:26:00 GMT
Serves me right for checking wrong pdf.
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bluebeard
Junior Strategist
crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women
Posts: 293
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Post by bluebeard on Jul 19, 2018 23:16:23 GMT
Artificers are magic ability 7 this week. Could you please post a file for those that can't get access to it?
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Post by onijet01 on Jul 20, 2018 0:13:35 GMT
Artificers are magic ability 7 this week. Could you please post a file for those that can't get access to it? Week 2 changes quote the first update of the Retribution CID! Here are the changes: Gorgon - We're going to try some weird things out with the Gorgon. Changing it's ranged attack to SP 8 increases it's efficiency greatly. I don't think we're done here by any means but lets give this change a few tests! Cost 9. Change Polarity Cannon RNG to SP 8. Hyperion - As we continue down the Hyperion road we would like to try out a 2 point drop. Cost 34. Dawnguard Sentinels - After much feedback being given the community seemed to believe the point cost change was unwarranted. We have reverted the change to Sentinels point cost. Cost 11/18. Mage Hunter Strike Force & Commander - We have seen many arguments about the efficiency of the Mage Hunter Strike Force and would like to try this out. This change is exciting to me because I think it really opens up what the unit can play in to and how it will function in lists. Gain Combined Ranged Attack XICONX. House Shyeel Artificer - We felt the Artificer and the Magister should have the same Magic Ability. Magic Ability 7. House Shyeel Magister - The Magister is being brought in line with his unit counterpart while also picking up Veteran Leader for House Shyeel troopers. Cut Force Barrier. Gain Veteran Leader [Shyeel trooper]: Veteran Leader [Shyeel trooper] - While in this model’s command range, Shyeel trooper models gain +1 to attack rolls. Dawnguard Trident - We have cleaned up the Psycho Matrix ability text. In doing so we have removed the ability for Telekinetic Wave to affect multiple models per turn. We also reduced the RNG on the Thresher Cannons to 10 in an attempt to allow for more counter play against the Trident. Due to how Momentum functioned with the POW of the weapon on the Trident we opted to change it to Ram for a more understandable and intuitive rule. Change the text of Psycho Matrix to: Psycho Matrix - This model can spend power tokens to use one of the following effects: Change the text of Force Shield to: Force Shield - At any time during its activation, this model can spend one power token to gain Force Barrier for one round. (A model with Force Barrier gains +2 DEF against ranged attack rolls and does not suffer blast damage.) Change to the text of Telekinetic Wave to: Telekinetic Wave - When this model ends its Normal Movement, it can spend one power token to use Telekinetic Wave. When it does so, choose one non-huge-based friendly Faction model it moved within 2˝ of. You can place the chosen model completely within 2˝ of its current location. A model can be placed as a result of Telekinetic Wave only once per turn. Thresher Cannons RNG 10. Change Momentum to Ram: Ram - When an enemy model is hit by this weapon during this model's Combat Action, it becomes knocked down and can be pushed 1˝ directly away from this model. If the model hit is pushed, this model can immediately advance 1˝ directly toward it. Retribution Theme Force: Defenders of Ios - Electromancers are being added to the third benefit for models that will gain Reposition. Change the third benefit to the following: Retribution solos, House Vyre Electromancer units, and Stormfall Archer units in this army gain Reposition [3˝]. (At the end of an activation it did not run or fail a charge, a model with Reposition [3˝] can advance up to 3˝, then its activation ends.) Retribution Theme Force: Forges of War - We would like to try out another direction to take this theme force. Allowing all Shyeel models to count towards free points should give this list a much larger variety of options that can be played. We are still looking at this theme closely and are likely not done modifying these benefits. We added the Fane Knight Guardian to the theme. Add “Fane Knight Guardian” to the Army Composition section. Change the second benefit to the following: For every full 30 points of Shyeel models/units in this army, you can add one Retribution solo to the army free of cost. Free models/units do not count toward the total point value of Shyeel models/units in the army when calculating this bonus. Retribution Theme Force: Legions of Dawn - To remove the option for Eiryss to shoot into deployment zones on the top of turn one we opted to change the theme benefit to a more limited but slightly more aggressive option. Giving Dawnguard +2 SPD on turn one should slightly increase their board presence while also removing an exploitative behavior we do not want in the game. Add “Fane Knight Guardian” to the Army Composition section. Change the fourth benefit to the following: Dawnguard in this army gain +2 SPD during your first turn of the game. Retribution Theme Force: Shadows of the Retribution - Picking up the Guardian is a nice option for caster attachments that could let casters play a little more aggressively in the mid to late game. Add “Fane Knight Guardian” to the Army Composition section.
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