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Post by elladan52 on Jul 11, 2018 17:15:58 GMT
How is everyone feeling? Nothing strikes me as absurd at first glance, lots of solid bluffs. Reducing points on sentinels is wild, I wonder if they will be nerfing them next time around.
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Post by Demeritus on Jul 11, 2018 19:22:03 GMT
So far I am quite pleased about the changes I see. G4 looks like an amazing and fun toolbox. Hyperion, the Daemon and the Gorgon are still some standouts to me as models who could still use some more work, but testing will determine that.
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Jul 11, 2018 19:35:18 GMT
I've got a few lists written out to test for this CID. Very minor changes to lists I currently run, one list gets advance move no Ellowuyr, another list gets 4 more free points with changes with free models and imperatus changes, and a 3rd which tries out the Trident and Imperatus in a LoD theme. Packing the car to head to game night now, lets see how these changes play out.
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Post by streetpizza on Jul 11, 2018 19:35:53 GMT
The trident looks like an even worse version of the derp turtle in the making.
Too fast with too many shots and a really good arm+wounds.
Compared to anything else at 16 points and it will over perform every time. Best comparison I've seen is to the seraph which is 14pts for d3 shots also has slipstream but is way lower armor. Not sure how they're pricing the pt costs on these things but something has gone off the rails with BE's.
Food for thought
Heavy killing potential: - 3xd3 pow 15 shots (G4) wit 3 boosted, move turn 1 hold tokens and move and shoot on turn 2. That's potentially per turn as well with no feat involved - 3xd3 pow 13 additional die damage shots with fortune and 3 boosts with Ossyan - 1x pow 18 boosted damage charge attack from 13" (15" if the first trident pulls the other) out with flight and no free strikes + 3d3 pow 15 shots with two boosted (allowing for the boosted to hit charge roll here) under Elara's feat and scything touch
Additional caster kililng potential: - 3xd3 pow 13 shots with 3 boosts at rat 8 thanks to blinding light and signs and portents with issyria 21" to 23" range from starting position - 3xd3 pow 13 shots all boosted attack rolls with boosted damage rolls under Ravyn 25" to 27" range from stating position
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on Jul 11, 2018 22:22:48 GMT
Apparently Temporal Wave can be used on multiple targets by one Trident per activation. It's a way better Seraph for 2 points more. The Trident is the only thing I think is way above the median. Everything else is more or less ok. Imperatus is a scary dude now.
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Post by groedius on Jul 11, 2018 22:26:31 GMT
I think the new battle engine looks bonkers I don't know how they're pointing this things or who comes up with the ideas but 2 of them seems strong especially when they are able to move each other from moving. I really like Ravyn I think she is solid and can not only shoot well but also use counter measure to shut down shooting when using theme with halberdiers with advance move or any AD unit that can get up there. I have an 2 list pairing using the CID which I think is interesting. conflictchamber.com/#c5201b_-0zmwc43L353635363xmpmp___-13b-4G2w2w2w2w2w2w2w2wms9v3y3y4khMhMmgRetribution Army - 74 / 75 points [Theme] Defenders of Ios !!! Your army contains CID entries. [Ravyn 1] Ravyn, the Eternal Light [+29] - Hyperion [36] Fane Knight Skeryth Issyen [0(8)] Houseguard Halberdiers (max) [13] - Houseguard Halberdier Officer & Standard [0(4)] Houseguard Halberdiers (max) [13] - Houseguard Halberdier Officer & Standard [0(4)] Stormfall Archers [9] Dawnguard Trident [16] Dawnguard Trident [16] Retribution Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Forges of War (CID) !!! Your army contains CID entries. !!! You are using a pre-release theme. [Vyros 2] Vyros, Incissar of the Dawnguard [+27] - Aspis [6] - Griffon [8] - Griffon [8] - Griffon [8] - Griffon [8] - Griffon [8] - Griffon [8] - Griffon [8] - Griffon [8] - Imperatus [20] - Sylys Wyshnalyrr, the Seeker [4] Arcanist Mechanik [2] Arcanist Mechanik [2] Lanyssa Ryssyl, Nyss Sorceress [4] House Shyeel Arcanists [0(7)] House Shyeel Arcanists [0(7)] House Shyeel Battle Mages [0(8)] With vyros I get the free arcanists and a unit of battle mages to look for crit knockdown. Imperatus got cheaper and picked up a mat. It allows me to run all the support and an extra jack than before, with an free upkeep, and the opportunity of hunters mark to allow others to charge for free. The Ravyn list gives me 3 huge bases and 2 units of halberdiers to jam the enemies and to also potentially stop shooting towards the big guys. The trident seems so good for his points and Hyperion got an extra 2 inches on his big gun and she can let him fire it twice. It's nice that I can upkeep snipe and load up hyperion and then have enough left to cycle snipe elsewhere.
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Post by mcdermott on Jul 11, 2018 22:56:31 GMT
I feel like NOT taking advantage of the countermeasures + stealth of the infiltrators is just a missed opportunity for loads of fun.
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germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
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Post by germanicus on Jul 12, 2018 1:45:56 GMT
I'm hoping that G4 can stay more or less as he is with minimal changes owing to how focus strapped he is outside of post-feat as he has such a sweet spell list. Outside of Dauntless Resolve, there are better versions of each one, but damn they're all nice in Ret and he wants to chuck most of them out every turn.
I think that because of how much 'unless has Immunity:Cold' steers him towards being a Nyss buff bot as he fixes/helps fix a lot of 'issues' the Nyss have. Dauntless Resolve for the Ryssovass (or anyone if a Lys Healer is lurking about) (though DR on DG Sentinels when they mini-feat may prove to be pretty popular too), Ghost Walk/DEF/ARM debuff for all when the side-effects are a no-sell because of the Priest. Add a couple HRT's and a Thane for the low low price of... well, you can take 'em all for free(!) and all the Ryssovass Advance Move. I'm liking it. Phoenix as core of the battlegroup, a sprinkling of Soulless Escorts plus Field Marshal and enemy spell casting is neatly shut down, too.
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Post by macdaddy on Jul 12, 2018 2:24:25 GMT
Honestly other than the BE, nothing jumps out to me as overly OP or overly UP.
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Post by onijet01 on Jul 12, 2018 2:43:36 GMT
How is everyone feeling? Nothing strikes me as absurd at first glance, lots of solid bluffs. Reducing points on sentinels is wild, I wonder if they will be nerfing them next time around. Accually the melee damage buff that Ravyn receaved by gaining weapon master places her as a huge killer now. Thanks to her vortex of distruction spell she can begin damaging high armor models at p+s13 and 4 dice. Thats huge for her. She still a range trap but her melee games been inprived dramatically. Also houseguard tag has been added to the strikeforce meaning our thane can now allow those bastards to hunt stealth models. Dispite being rat 5 brital damage on stealth warbeasts or accuralty shooting fire or range 16 ginns into stealth now is an option for them Simplication to the destor models is also a huge boost ad well. Removing overly complicated abilities and enshuring that each turn both melee and range can be used without issue will go a long way into making the models viable (usable but not hyper compeditive levels)
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on Jul 12, 2018 3:51:33 GMT
Ravyn lost Vortex of Destruction and Eliminator.
I would go to bat to keep Ghyrrshyld as is right now. He has a bonkers spell list but is crazy focus strapped. He can't do everything he wants to when he wants to. I call that a good balance.
Also I may have missed it but I don't see the Houseguard tag on the MHSF.
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Post by mcdermott on Jul 12, 2018 3:56:06 GMT
its on the stormfalls not mhsf
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germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
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Post by germanicus on Jul 12, 2018 4:21:49 GMT
Accually the melee damage buff that Ravyn receaved by gaining weapon master places her as a huge killer now. Thanks to her vortex of distruction spell she can begin damaging high armor models at p+s13 and 4 dice. Thats huge for her. She still a range trap but her melee games been inprived dramatically. Except she lost that spell (that and Eliminator... 'cos who seriously cast that with intent?!), so 4d6 damage without charging isn't happening. I'm guessing you mean the Stormfall Archers... the Strike Force got Granted: Magical. We can agree on the Destors, I think because of the updates to the Dawnguard and G4 together, G4 can get some pretty good work done with max Destors and they'll be more than viable (I'm seriously contemplating buying them, and I con't be able to play Ret again outside of mass proxying for at least two years...!).
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germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
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Post by germanicus on Jul 12, 2018 4:32:09 GMT
I would go to bat to keep Ghyrrshyld as is right now. He has a bonkers spell list but is crazy focus strapped. He can't do everything he wants to when he wants to. I call that a good balance. I agree 100%, but was concerned about getting caught up in arguments about 'different tools for different problems', that G4 can deal with whatever problem he is presented with as and when the need arises, reliably getting two of his buff/debuff/support spells each turn. My perspective being that his debuffs are crappier versions of standard debuff spells that already exist. Hand of Ice has a proviso and is only -2 ARM. Parasite/Crippling Grasp are both far superior and Scything Touch does not need a roll to apply. Light of Wrath is expensive, and will often kill what you want to de-Stealth (this is OK, but defeats the purpose of the secondary effect) and will typically only hit a relatively small handful of models... cf Marked for Death. We all know and love to hate Revive (vs. Raise the Dead). And his toolkit can be shut down by Immunity: Cold (Trollbloods theme) and/or soul denial. Given the moderate cost of his spell list and the mid-tier nature of his debuffs in particular along with his need to camp (FM and average-ish defensive stats etc.), he's strong, don't get me wrong, but he has plenty of counterplay.
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on Jul 12, 2018 4:52:58 GMT
That's something else I would point out. Two of his debuff spells are offensive. Against critical targets this will necessitate a boost. This further hampers his Focus efficiency. He really does do a lot, but the turn by turn is only going to see him get one or two spells out, max.
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