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Post by jagius021 on Jul 12, 2018 18:55:58 GMT
I used to work in a game store and the old addage rings true here: you could put a hundred dollar bill in each package, and the customer would complain about how it was folded.
I think you're missing the point of CID. It's not a "gift" given to us, we're testing proposed changes to see how they impact the faction's balance for better or worse. If things are illogical or unbalanced, we should be allowed to say as much. It is the purpose of this whole process.
There are a lot of people who are going far beyond just saying as much. And my comment isn't about CID the system.
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Post by etheric42 on Jul 12, 2018 20:53:55 GMT
I find it unfortunate as well, as I would like to point out how the changes to Stormfall Archers make Riflemen even more irrelevant than they were before, or how it would make sense to push the Banshee to mat7 or rat 6 to match the fact that both jacks are basically the best of what each House can produce. But I don't say it because I don't want to get banned. You aren't going to get banned for respectfully saying it. I've said it and I haven't even gotten an infraction. The key part to keep in mind is that this CID wants to talk about SFA and not riflemen, so you have to talk about the SFA. It would entirely be appropriate to say: SFA crowd out the design space for another unit, by taking over its ability to receive a speed buff and shoot stealthed targets. A Ravyn feat plus two thanes is enough to make them clear high def stealth as effectively (or better with the AoE drifts) as a Ravyn feat plus riflemen plus thane or two riflemen units plus two thanes (which is a lot more expensive). With 2" longer range with snipe ammo and reposition from the theme, they should be more able to aim which cancels out a bit of the CRA accuracy advantage that riflemen have, while also being able to shoot shieldwalls (fire) or high armor (brutal). I understand the desire to increase the synergy of SFA, but it shouldn't be at the expense of taking another unit's role. Perhaps a better way to increase synergy that would give them a more unique niche would be to... And then bonus points if you run a list with riflemen and SFA and point out that the SFA did everything the riflemen did but better, and it would make more sense to pair the SFA with AFGs as your ranged "units" as the AFG's knockdown shot also has synergy with the SFA. The most important thing is to focus on the SFA, not complain about the riflemen. Just like the best way to talk about the two swordsmen units in Defenders is to talk about how the advanced move impacts them and your choices (is it enough, is it not enough, is it too much?), not complain about the swordsmen.
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Post by mcdermott on Jul 12, 2018 21:30:50 GMT
No, Dont think so. If a player is acting like a toddler with a full diaper I'm going to make fun of them for it. Saaaaad saaaad violin
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Post by catulle on Jul 12, 2018 21:37:15 GMT
"Do you know what 'Nemesis' means?"
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Jul 12, 2018 21:40:22 GMT
No, Dont think so. If a player is acting like a toddler with a full diaper I'm going to make fun of them for it. Saaaaad saaaad violinListen buddy, I can shit my pants whenever and wherever I please.
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Post by mcdermott on Jul 12, 2018 22:12:31 GMT
No, Dont think so. If a player is acting like a toddler with a full diaper I'm going to make fun of them for it. Saaaaad saaaad violinListen buddy, I can shit my pants whenever and wherever I please. Long as you don't feel entitled to have a forum full of near strangers soothe you over it.
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Post by Ianassa on Jul 13, 2018 7:28:47 GMT
Slipstream in ret is problematic if Eiryss1 can shoot to opponent deployment 1A.
Jack tweaks are welcome and nothing too much there in my opinion.
Infiltrators going up to 15 points is so much I fear I'd field the even less, even with combo strike, but we'll see. Maybe it's a good thing in the end. Magic weapons to mhsf is nice though not sure why they're gettying them.
G4 looks quite fun, but like that he's got too much going for him. He's got everything you'd ever hope from a caster, no limitations is a problem. Hit buff, damage buff, cloud tech, arm buff, dear Scyrah... And most of that is from upkeeps, put them on and upkeep, herp derp derp.
Destor changes look great, but invictors and sents getting cheaper and buffed further wtf?? They are already strong enough to dominate with Issyria, now they are looking on making them the new boogeyman. No thanks.
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Post by onijet01 on Jul 13, 2018 8:13:30 GMT
Slipstream in ret is problematic if Eiryss1 can shoot to opponent deployment 1A. Jack tweaks are welcome and nothing too much there in my opinion. Infiltrators going uo to 15 points is so much I fear I'd field the even less, even with combo strike. Magic weapons to mhsf is nice though not sure why they're gettying them. G4 looks quite fun, but like that he's got too much going for him. He's got everything you'd ever hope from a caster, no limitations is a problem. Hit buff, damage buff, cloud tech, arm buff, dear Scyrah... And most of that is from upkeeps, put them on and upkeep, herp derp derp. Destor changes look great, but invictors and sents getting cheaper and buffed further wtf?? They are already strong enough to dominate with Issyria, now they are looking on making them the new boogeyman. No thanks. So infiltrators may be worth the point increase. Sounds weard but with sertain casters and lists these guys suddenly hit as hard as heavy warjacks. And example is a infiltrator with thyrone can swing (with gang) at mat10 and hit (combo strike) at p+s16 You can also have multiple p+s16 combo strikes with elara 2 using scything touch and have 3 or more strike a target.
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Post by Ianassa on Jul 13, 2018 8:22:33 GMT
Slipstream in ret is problematic if Eiryss1 can shoot to opponent deployment 1A. Jack tweaks are welcome and nothing too much there in my opinion. Infiltrators going uo to 15 points is so much I fear I'd field the even less, even with combo strike. Magic weapons to mhsf is nice though not sure why they're gettying them. G4 looks quite fun, but like that he's got too much going for him. He's got everything you'd ever hope from a caster, no limitations is a problem. Hit buff, damage buff, cloud tech, arm buff, dear Scyrah... And most of that is from upkeeps, put them on and upkeep, herp derp derp. Destor changes look great, but invictors and sents getting cheaper and buffed further wtf?? They are already strong enough to dominate with Issyria, now they are looking on making them the new boogeyman. No thanks. So infiltrators may be worth the point increase. Sounds weard but with sertain casters and lists these guys suddenly hit as hard as heavy warjacks. And example is a infiltrator with thyrone can swing (with gang) at mat10 and hit (combo strike) at p+s16 You can also have multiple p+s16 combo strikes with elara 2 using scything touch and have 3 or more strike a target. Yeah at ps16 we're getting to the point where they could be worth it. At least worth trying out and they would have a different niche than currently. Still not sure if that's worth the cost considering how easy they are to kill. Eiryss3 being available as free is big for theme though. I see potential with Gore4 but then I'd always pick legions with him over shadows. Cloud screened ps14 arm 20/23 sentinels with ghostly? Seriously...
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jul 13, 2018 8:59:10 GMT
What makes me laugh is that in the dev talk they said something to the effect of 'we cannot test every possible interaction, so that is why CID is useful'
They then drop the CID and immediately people are like 'Eiryss 1 can hit the Deployment line top of turn 1' and PP are like 'Herp Derp! That's an issue, how should we fix it?'
How can they not be aware of such patently obvious things? it hardly obscure or unforeseen! It really does make me question their competence as devs.
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Post by macdaddy on Jul 13, 2018 10:52:03 GMT
What makes me laugh is that in the dev talk they said something to the effect of 'we cannot test every possible interaction, so that is why CID is useful' They then drop the CID and immediately people are like 'Eiryss 1 can hit the Deployment line top of turn 1' and PP are like 'Herp Derp! That's an issue, how should we fix it?' How can they not be aware of such patently obvious things? it hardly obscure or unforeseen! It really does make me question their competence as devs. If this was a single occurrence I’d be more lenient but this has happened quite a lot of the past year or 2 of cycles.
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Post by elladan52 on Jul 13, 2018 11:37:01 GMT
What makes me laugh is that in the dev talk they said something to the effect of 'we cannot test every possible interaction, so that is why CID is useful' They then drop the CID and immediately people are like 'Eiryss 1 can hit the Deployment line top of turn 1' and PP are like 'Herp Derp! That's an issue, how should we fix it?' How can they not be aware of such patently obvious things? it hardly obscure or unforeseen! It really does make me question their competence as devs. Did they say they were unaware of it? It actually seems like kind of the ideal thing for CID: getting the players' opinions on how to fix a problem.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jul 13, 2018 11:47:27 GMT
What makes me laugh is that in the dev talk they said something to the effect of 'we cannot test every possible interaction, so that is why CID is useful' They then drop the CID and immediately people are like 'Eiryss 1 can hit the Deployment line top of turn 1' and PP are like 'Herp Derp! That's an issue, how should we fix it?' How can they not be aware of such patently obvious things? it hardly obscure or unforeseen! It really does make me question their competence as devs. Did they say they were unaware of it? It actually seems like kind of the ideal thing for CID: getting the players' opinions on how to fix a problem. Well it was not until someone raised it as an issue that they asked for input on how to fix it. If you were being charitable you could say they were obviously aware of it beforehand, and maybe they were just testing to community to see if they noticed it.
I would put my money on them just not realising though, the simplest answer is usually the right one.
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Post by jagius021 on Jul 13, 2018 12:18:37 GMT
The dev team is actually just 1 unpaid internship, everyone else just takes the credit.
Actual answer though, is a difference of mentality, personality, and being over enmeshed. Work on something for so long and you tend to gloss over things, you've become to enmeshed in what you're working with. There are also people who look specifically for neat interactions, those that look to break things, and those that look to solve problems. So dev team might be stuck in the mentality of fixing things, and are relying on us, who might like to break things, to solve those problems. And look! Y'all did.
Now the real solution is to give all ret solos -2 spd during the first round of every game. Balanced.
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bluebeard
Junior Strategist
crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women
Posts: 293
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Post by bluebeard on Jul 13, 2018 13:05:51 GMT
The dev team is actually just 1 unpaid internship, everyone else just takes the credit. Actual answer though, is a difference of mentality, personality, and being over enmeshed. Work on something for so long and you tend to gloss over things, you've become to enmeshed in what you're working with. There are also people who look specifically for neat interactions, those that look to break things, and those that look to solve problems. So dev team might be stuck in the mentality of fixing things, and are relying on us, who might like to break things, to solve those problems. And look! Y'all did. Now the real solution is to give all ret solos -2 spd during the first round of every game. Balanced. And add animosity towards all human models... Edit: I meant vendetta, not animosity
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