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Post by maxtermynd on Jul 11, 2018 19:04:22 GMT
Yeah, I feel like Jaws needs some kind of deployment boost instead of repo on mechanics. 2" extra deployment or +1 to go first are very common theme benefits that really play into the scout theme that they're trying to do with the list. Or maybe even flip it around and give the enemy -1 to go first or -2 inches deployment as we've caught them unawares.
Giving advanced moves I feel would step too much on WGK's toes, even though it would be really nice.
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Post by tapecrawler on Jul 11, 2018 19:15:08 GMT
You could give the Jacks Passage as the benefit. I mean Carapace on Slayer spam is about that silly.
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leander
Junior Strategist
Posts: 185
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Post by leander on Jul 11, 2018 19:37:53 GMT
if we want silly, a theme benefit for jaws of the wolf would be "your army can see 1' extra into forests" it would at least be more in tune with scouting.
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Post by mcdermott on Jul 11, 2018 20:18:47 GMT
I don't think the problem with Wolves is the theme benefits, giving magical weapons to the jacks would be super redundant with everything already having magical weapons in the theme. The problem with Wolves is that the doom reavers and greylord stuff is overcosted, sure it lacks model choice but until wolves gets a real cid it will remain a problem. Jaws is the theme with the most theme issues. The benefits are just bad, it's a spd 4 jack theme with no bonus to help with scenario presence. Make jacks have +2 spd when they run like in WWFF instead of giving mechaniks reposition and now the theme starts being interesting instead of just being the I will lose on scenario theme. The problem with wolves is that your troopers are a 6 man unit, a 3 man unit and a 5 man unit of light cav. They need a 10 man for that theme badly. Greylord flavored hex hunters tbqh.
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Post by welshhoppo on Jul 11, 2018 22:30:17 GMT
That's what I'd like to see.
Firstly, an expansion into our magic and orgoth tech. We know that we can create Orgoth weaponry such as Ruin's shield.
So I would like to see an expansion of the units, maybe an Orgoth unit like the precursor knights. Heavy Doom Reaver Cavalry, an Orgoth investigation team, like the kind to explore ruins for new tech.
There's a lot that can be done, and I really think that once Wolves gets the work that it needs, it will really up the stakes.
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Post by tapecrawler on Jul 12, 2018 1:38:27 GMT
I’d just like to see some synergy in the WoW theme. I’m surprised AK’s aren’t included because the theme seems to be all of the independent models that don’t really support each other. Like Fast front line units (Doomies) that can’t have the support Ternion cast their Blizzard spell on them. Granted: Battle Wizard on some of the squishiest models in our inventory who only should be in melee if everything has gone pear shaped. The Outriders are the exception to this rule but will probably outrun the CMD bubble when they engage. The saddest thing is this is the only theme I can field with my existing models.
I’d love to run all th options of Amored Corps (maybe even the goofy ass chariots) but sadly that is way out of my price range right now. So it’s very frustrating when the only current theme I can field is a mess. There’s not even really a light at the end of the tunnel for me because nobody outside of PP knows when WoW will get CID’ed.
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Post by Havock on Jul 12, 2018 2:03:00 GMT
My suggestion would be to keep AK and LoS largely as is, removing the character restriction on the latter. Why? The former is pretty fleshed out while LoS is "focused and fluffy".
Then, reform the other themes into something by looking at "operational themes".
You have a Hammer, Anvil and Breakthrough Theme.
A bit broader than <troop type X&Y> but appealing more to the combined arms nature of the faction.
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Post by mcdermott on Jul 12, 2018 3:54:47 GMT
I’d just like to see some synergy in the WoW theme. I’m surprised AK’s aren’t included because the theme seems to be all of the independent models that don’t really support each other. Like Fast front line units (Doomies) that can’t have the support Ternion cast their Blizzard spell on them. Granted: Battle Wizard on some of the squishiest models in our inventory who only should be in melee if everything has gone pear shaped. The Outriders are the exception to this rule but will probably outrun the CMD bubble when they engage. The saddest thing is this is the only theme I can field with my existing models. I’d love to run all th options of Amored Corps (maybe even the goofy ass chariots) but sadly that is way out of my price range right now. So it’s very frustrating when the only current theme I can field is a mess. There’s not even really a light at the end of the tunnel for me because nobody outside of PP knows when WoW will get CID’ed. Wolves of winter is a "dark magic" theme. The only problem is that it lacks the units necessary because our "dark magic" has been support for other things up til mk3. A decent 10man line trooper with a short ranged magic pew, and maybe low mat but chiller for the frost aspect and wolves would have all the moving parts it needed, and work well with our greylord themed warcasters. DONT give that unit battle wizard, let the kovnik provide AK's fit fine in WGK, the problem is that they're basically well trained winter guard without the winter guard tag so their support is meh.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jul 12, 2018 6:24:46 GMT
maybe an Orgoth unit like the precursor knights. Could you elaborate? At the moment I feel that Doomreavers are very much like Precursors only better overall (both have similar base stats, both have decent POW magic weaponmaster weapons, both have Spellward). Precursors are only Weaponmasters once per game and only with the CA, they have much lower RNG on their weapons which makes them much harder to use, they have Blessed and Shieldwall but lack Berserk and Tough. I don't think Precursors see much play actually (although I only just picked up a box because I love the models).
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Post by welshhoppo on Jul 12, 2018 7:42:25 GMT
maybe an Orgoth unit like the precursor knights. Could you elaborate? At the moment I feel that Doomreavers are very much like Precursors only better overall (both have similar base stats, both have decent POW magic weaponmaster weapons, both have Spellward). Precursors are only Weaponmasters once per game and only with the CA, they have much lower RNG on their weapons which makes them much harder to use, they have Blessed and Shieldwall but lack Berserk and Tough. I don't think Precursors see much play actually (although I only just picked up a box because I love the models). Just tossing ideas about ten man units. Obviously you don't want to step on the toes of the doom reavers, so having shield wall or wall of steel with one inch magic weapons or something. Even if they lose weaponmaster Wolves could really use a cheaper unit for scoring zones and jamming up nonsense.
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leander
Junior Strategist
Posts: 185
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Post by leander on Jul 12, 2018 8:06:01 GMT
IMO right now doomreavers are a bit too squishy (especially at their current cost), mainly due to spell ward which i feel has become a hindrance rather than a bonus lately, it's not hard to hit or kill doom reavers and having them immune to all targeted magic makes it all the more harder to help them, be it by boosting their mobility, survivability or damage output. right now irusk 2 with artifice of deviation and solid ground is probably the best "Buffer" for them. Dash with Vlad 3 can boost their SPD along with parry but i don't know if doom reavers are what vlad 3 wants.
according to lore, doom reavers are just criminals that have been given fell blades, that gets me thinking...what if they had a similar rule to "take up" where if a doom reaver dies within 2' or 3' away from a friendly faction warrior model you could choose to turn that model into a new doom reaver? too much?
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jul 12, 2018 8:08:47 GMT
Just tossing ideas about ten man units. Obviously you don't want to step on the toes of the doom reavers, so having shield wall or wall of steel with one inch magic weapons or something. Even if they lose weaponmaster Wolves could really use a cheaper unit for scoring zones and jamming up nonsense. Turns out Orgoth didn't just make giant two-handed Fellblades, they also made tiny little fell-daggers. When Khador wants to punish a criminal who's too small or physically weak to wield a large blade, they give them the small daggers. So... basically a unit of Doom-gobbers. DEF 15 MAT 7 RNG 0.5 P+S 6 Magic Weaponmasters; 10-man unit costs 10 points. Special rules: "Prowl, Short: This model does not block line of sight".
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Post by welshhoppo on Jul 12, 2018 8:34:58 GMT
Just tossing ideas about ten man units. Obviously you don't want to step on the toes of the doom reavers, so having shield wall or wall of steel with one inch magic weapons or something. Even if they lose weaponmaster Wolves could really use a cheaper unit for scoring zones and jamming up nonsense. Turns out Orgoth didn't just make giant two-handed Fellblades, they also made tiny little fell-daggers. When Khador wants to punish a criminal who's too small or physically weak to wield a large blade, they give them the small daggers. So... basically a unit of Doom-gobbers. DEF 15 MAT 7 RNG 0.5 P+S 6 Magic Weaponmasters; 10-man unit costs 10 points. Special rules: "Prowl, Short: This model does not block line of sight". Armed with the Fellbutterknife and Toast shield. These short warriors hold their own in the eternal battles of Lord Butter.
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Post by mcdermott on Jul 12, 2018 10:56:18 GMT
Still kind of think greylords > doomies for a 10 man.
Greylords have an opportunity to be compared favorably to the other greylords...there's too real a chance that a 10 man doomie unit gets shelved in favor of 2X normal doomies.
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Post by Havock on Jul 12, 2018 13:23:41 GMT
If Kayazy were part of the theme (Criminals & dark magic?) and get the benefits, it could probably work better; doomies are vulnerable to shooting, Kayazy less so, Kayazy can screen the doomies from charges. Sure, it might detract from the theme a bit, but such shoehorned 'themes' don't really work for most of the faction. At least in my opinion.
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