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Post by sand20go on Jul 9, 2018 21:23:41 GMT
Worst part of LoS is that PP guys can not explain "Why" it exists. They hinted that Rienholdt+Vlad1 Rockets was the reason for that restriction - which I can actually understand (if not agree with) since Reinholdts spyglass is table wide in its rng rockets at threat 20 is also a bit of a problem. I know with Spriggan that is less of a concern. Interestingly, _IF_ steelhead rifles get buffed/better that could solve the shooting.....then the magic becomes one of the remaining issue for LoS You know what's funny? Literally the only themes from September 2017 release that have "non-character merc" limitations are 2 Khador themes. There are 54 themes in that list total. PP is scared of giving Khador nice things for some reason despite us not even being the most nerfed or most performing faction. They just irrationally bully us. +1. I have always thought it has to do with a strange meta in the PP internal play testing world. I KNOW they love cranking dice rolls with B1 - who I think play tests ("oMG look at how that whiped your army) better than he actually plays (OK, since you crank INSANE damage but are slow as mud I have MY win condition - scenario you.")
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Post by auraco on Jul 9, 2018 21:26:37 GMT
Well the theme benefits for legion of steel are actually pretty good. The countercharges are a key part of the theme. My guess is that the non character part is there to prevent us from taking Nyss in the theme and patch up the lack of shooting, this has the side effect of preventing us from taking ayana & holt and really restricting where and when we can drop the theme in competitive play. I'm also guessing the steelhead rifles are not good enough to have the same impact as the nyss hunters.
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Post by hocestbellum on Jul 9, 2018 21:33:41 GMT
Jesus no. They're terrible. If you made the Rifle Corps more expensive and with 4" less range, that's Steelheads.
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Post by smoothcriminal on Jul 9, 2018 21:56:22 GMT
Well the theme benefits for legion of steel are actually pretty good. The countercharges are a key part of the theme. My guess is that the non character part is there to prevent us from taking Nyss in the theme and patch up the lack of shooting, this has the side effect of preventing us from taking ayana & holt and really restricting where and when we can drop the theme in competitive play. I'm also guessing the steelhead rifles are not good enough to have the same impact as the nyss hunters. That makes sense, but there is no rational reason to single out those 2 themes with those restrictions. A pikemen theme can't have Nyss, but a shambling horde of banes or any other melee spam theme can? A Countercharge is a big bonus that limits mercs, but a Carapace on Slayers (or Advance move on mows, etc.) isn't? No matter how we approach this, we can't explain this with a consistent design paradigm. The punchline is that we can take same pikeman spam or wg spam out of theme and have mercs because "work for Khador" rule is still there. But themes somehow contradict it because reasons. It's a poor design choice at the end of the day.
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Post by dmorktry on Jul 9, 2018 21:57:05 GMT
I don't see why if specific character mercs are a problem, they don't just bar those from the theme instead of barring all of them, sure it's less graceful but the alternative is only slightly less sloppy, especially when those stipulations exists exclusively in Khador
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Post by sand20go on Jul 9, 2018 22:18:00 GMT
Jesus no. They're terrible. If you made the Rifle Corps more expensive and with 4" less range, that's Steelheads.Remem They are getting CID'ed. They will be improved. The question is by how much and how much the UA/solo will cost.
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Post by sand20go on Jul 9, 2018 22:19:55 GMT
Well the theme benefits for legion of steel are actually pretty good. The countercharges are a key part of the theme. My guess is that the non character part is there to prevent us from taking Nyss in the theme and patch up the lack of shooting, this has the side effect of preventing us from taking ayana & holt and really restricting where and when we can drop the theme in competitive play. I'm also guessing the steelhead rifles are not good enough to have the same impact as the nyss hunters. I assume this because Nyss+V under Strakov 2 is pretty bonkers. But I am not sure power creep hasn't made that point largely irrelevant.
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Post by Havock on Jul 10, 2018 1:04:44 GMT
They may be correct in the essence, but I'm kind of tired of people playing meta boogieman lists trying to tell me that my jack-heavy lists are overpowered. Simple solution to that problem: “Fine, I’ll stop playing Khador jack-heavy lists. BTW, can I proxy nine slayers?” But Slayers are fine, balanced, super squishy and cannot casually get a bunch of survivability bonuses on top of something like additional deployment space.
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Post by tapecrawler on Jul 10, 2018 2:06:18 GMT
Speaking of themes, I wish we had a theme we could take an Artillery Kapitan with Behemoth. That’s not too much to ask, is it?
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leander
Junior Strategist
Posts: 185
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Post by leander on Jul 10, 2018 12:57:11 GMT
I wish this theme list was possible... Khador Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Legion of Steel [Irusk 2] Supreme Kommandant Irusk [+27] - Behemoth [25] Iron Fang Kovnik [0(4)] Kapitan Sofya Skirova [0(5)] Great Bears of the Gallowswood [9] Iron Fang Pikemen (max) [15] - Iron Fang Pikemen Officer & Standard [0(4)] Iron Fang Pikemen (max) [15] - Iron Fang Pikemen Officer & Standard [4] Iron Fang Uhlans (max) [20] Lady Aiyana & Master Holt [8] - Kapitan Valachev [4] I'll say it again #FreeBehemoth and #Freecharactermercunits
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Post by hocestbellum on Jul 10, 2018 13:03:03 GMT
Some strong shooting, a damage buff, and magical weapons? That would be delightful, I agree.
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Post by benjamini on Jul 10, 2018 13:21:54 GMT
I'd take even just Aiyana and Holt... and I HATE paying for Aiyana and Holt, but that whole thing would be delightful.
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Post by maxtermynd on Jul 10, 2018 13:26:00 GMT
Well the theme benefits for legion of steel are actually pretty good. The countercharges are a key part of the theme. My guess is that the non character part is there to prevent us from taking Nyss in the theme and patch up the lack of shooting, this has the side effect of preventing us from taking ayana & holt and really restricting where and when we can drop the theme in competitive play. I'm also guessing the steelhead rifles are not good enough to have the same impact as the nyss hunters. I assume this because Nyss+V under Strakov 2 is pretty bonkers. But I am not sure power creep hasn't made that point largely irrelevant. If I remember correctly from the "let's add mercs to themes!" CID somebody made a pretty nasty LegoS list with Alexia1 that got rated red or orange, resulting in the ban. I keep on seeing stuff like that in the CID battle reports that end up changing how things work in the final product that makes me question exactly how much internal playtesting PP does of CID stuff.
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Post by auraco on Jul 10, 2018 13:29:00 GMT
The theme force dump was before the CID process if I'm not mistaken.
I'm really curious to see how the greylord adjunct will change things for us, if its spell list actually help with some of khador's issues and it's not just restricted to wolves of winter it could be a game changer for us.
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Post by tapecrawler on Jul 10, 2018 13:33:47 GMT
The addition of Alexia1 was put in the orange/red category but a table full of Slayers with carapace is okay? Really?
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