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Post by thematsjo on Jun 26, 2018 12:33:31 GMT
Back at it again with the lists! This time, let's talk about bottom 3's (1 is the absolute worst) of everything Khador! Rank the weakest (in terms of power level when played under the best possible circumstances) list formats, warcaster, warjacks, battle engines, units & solos! Bonus points for listing the bottom 3 worst Mercenaries available to Khador as well! Just a bit of fun, don't think about it too hard okay? Mine (biased against models I don't know well of course) go like this right now: List Formats ( Armored Corps, Jaws of the Wolf, Legion of Steel, Winter Guard Kommand, Wolves of Winter or Unthemed) 3. Legion of Steel 2. Wolves of Winter 1. Unthemed Warcasters3. Malakov2 2. Karchev1 1. Butcher2 Warjacks3. Decimator 2. Black Ivan 1. Drago Battle Engines ( Just rank the available three I guess  ) 3. Winter Guard Gun Carriage 2. Man-o-War Siege Chariot 1. Man-o-War Assault Chariot Units3. Black Dragons (probably way too harsh but I just see them as a bit worse than IFP) 2. Greylord Ternion 1. Assault Kommandos Solos3. Man-o-War Drakhun 2. Yuri the Axe 1. Koldun Lord Mercenaries3. Steelhead Heavy Cavalry 2. Hammerfall High Shield Gun Corps 1. Pirates in general (I know that's cheating, come at me!) It'll be interesting to see how far I am from the consensus here. My experience is very narrow so I'm sure there will be a bunch of eye-openers for me. |
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Post by cageyj0nny on Jun 26, 2018 13:05:00 GMT
Its interesting that you have karchev down as worse than ow1.
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Post by welshhoppo on Jun 26, 2018 13:08:04 GMT
Someone is wrong on the internet! Shame!
Themes (as unthemed is going to be bottom regardless.
3. Legion of Steel. - Also the third best.
2. Jaws - It's a theme with poor benefits, the sole benefit is being able to take behemoth at full cost.
1. Wolves - It's half a theme, both the moving parts don't get on at all. Things are expensive and fragile.
Warcasters
3. Vladimir3 - Doesn't really have a feat, nor does he do anything that other casters don't do better.
2. OW1 - Fragile as sin, only has half a feat which does nothing against non warrior models. Chronic WJ point shortage.
1. Butcher2 - Random Focus......
Warjacks
3. Black Ivan - For 5 points more than a destroyer.... You don't get much
2. Demolisher - For 2 more points than the other clam he has guns, which he can't use without opening up.
1. Drago - A walking pile of rubbish, not even Vlad wants him.
I'll leave battle engines
Units
3. Greylord Ternion - Very fragile, short ranged and they can't hit much.
2. Assault Kommandos - Too many bad rules, and their ideal target is low arm low def infantry
1. Kossites. - more expensive than WGI, also, they can't hit anything and what they can hit they don't even hurt.
Solos
3. Fenris - Wayyyy to expensive for what he does, which is just die.
2. WG AK - Not all that great, like he's so dull too.
1. Manhunter - Not bad per say, just short ranged.
Also, whats wrong with Karchev and Black Dragons? Both are really good in the right circumstances. And the Drakhun?!?!?!
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chuggyg
Junior Strategist
Posts: 474 
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Post by chuggyg on Jun 26, 2018 13:20:56 GMT
Imagine thinking Decimator is anywhere close to bottom 3
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chuggyg
Junior Strategist
Posts: 474
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Post by chuggyg on Jun 26, 2018 13:21:54 GMT
And thinking greylord ternion aren't good... gas this thread and ban op!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by auraco on Jun 26, 2018 14:41:47 GMT
I'm not a big fan of Karchev, but I don't think he deserves to be in the bottom 3 like that, not by a longshot.
Casters:
-OW1, she just doesn't do much and that 18 jack point is hurting her a lot
-Butcher2, yeah random focus
-Vlad3, Dash and hand of fate don't make up for his terrible feat that really got screwed by the theme forces removing his option of running a lot of cavalry at the same time.
Theme forces:
-Wolves of winter: it does have its uses considering how hard it is to get magical weapons in khador, but everything feels overcosted
-Legion of steel, super binary theme with no meaninful access to magic weapons
-Jaws, by the gods do I hate this theme, a spd 4 jack theme with only the situational no ambush to help on scenario, a buff to mechaniks that are terrible and that most people don't field, I have no idea why this is one of khador's most popular theme.
Jacks
-Black Ivan, why is this thing still 19 points?
-Mad dog, I still think it's terrible
-Drago just why?
Battle engine
-Both man o war chariots, overspecialised and overcosted pieces of tech on a squishy chassis, just why?
Units
-Ternions, really expansive for what they do, also can't target doom reavers with their support spells and can only be in theme with the doom reavers
-Assault Kommandoes, no reason to field them, completely screwed by the themes.
-Kossites, rat 4, really? Oh they get to rat 6 with backstrike, that as much as assault kommandoes with no backstrike, and kommandoes are terrible
Solo
-Yuri, only reason people take him is because he can be free in jaws, he's still just a suicide missile that does one attack and the usually dies after
-Koldun Lord, a fancy ternion, with the most useless leadership ability in the world, he could really use a redesign
-Manhunter, 9,5'' threat range for ok attacks, there's a reason they never actually see any table time.
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Post by bearstronaut on Jun 26, 2018 15:12:16 GMT
List Formats (Armored Corps, Jaws of the Wolf, Legion of Steel, Winter Guard Kommand, Wolves of Winter or Unthemed) 3. Legion of Steel 2. Wolves of Winter 1. Unthemed Warcasters 3. Sorscha2 2. Old Witch 1 (Accidentally put OW2 here and that is definitely NOT the case xD) 1. Butcher 2 Warjacks 3. Demolisher 2. Black Ivan 1. Drago Battle Engines (Just rank the available three I guess ) 3. Winter Guard Gun Carriage 2. Man-o-War Siege Chariot 1. Man-o-War Assault Chariot They're all good tho Units 3. Battle Mechaniks + UA (I only ever take these guys because I have no choice, they are seriously the worst mechaniks in the game) 2. Greylord Ternion 1. Assault Kommandos Solos 3. Yuri the Axe 2. Koldun Lord 1. Manhunter |
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Post by thematsjo on Jun 26, 2018 15:22:20 GMT
It's interesting that you have karchev down as worse than ow1. Old Witch1 isn't great atm but at least her feat isn't just a worse version of Butcher1's and she isn't a 'jack caster that can't give their 'jacks Pathfinder or boost their mobility without relying on warriors they shouldn't even need. I'll agree Battle-Charged is pretty spicy, but he doesn't have the focus to boost like 5 warjacks the way someone like--again--Butcher1 does with Full Throttle. Zevanna is just suffering from the Mk3 meta game, Karchev is confused about what he wants to be. Why do you like him over OW1? Also, whats wrong with Karchev and Black Dragons? And the Drakhun? Nice picks! I explain Karchev above, and I don't like Black Dragons because I think they're outclassed by IFP and they ended up on the list because Khador has genuinely great infantry. I even think Woodsmen can be good (although probably not as long as they're stuck in just JotW). I like the Drakhun more than most but in the elimination process it just seemed like the least necessary model. Even Fenris has Leadership and Manhunters are cheap enough to hold an objective and make their points back. Imagine thinking Decimator is anywhere close to bottom 3 Enlighten me. I see a focus sink with a RAT 4 gun, what do you see? I'm not a big fan of Karchev, but I don't think he deserves to be in the bottom 3 like that, not by a longshot. More nice picks! I explain my reasoning for Karchev above. |
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Post by Netherby on Jun 26, 2018 15:48:03 GMT
Only your warcaster list is all that controversial...
Karchev can't be in the bottom 3 because Zerkova2, Sorscha2 and Vlad3 exist. All which you can't even build a list for...
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chuggyg
Junior Strategist
Posts: 474
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Post by chuggyg on Jun 26, 2018 16:46:08 GMT
Imagine thinking Decimator is anywhere close to bottom 3 Enlighten me. I see a focus sink with a RAT 4 gun, what do you see? I see a rat4 gun in a faction that has wide access to stationary and knockdown, with RoF2, boostable POW15, and Beat Back. |
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Post by jonnyboy on Jun 26, 2018 18:55:08 GMT
Enlighten me. I see a focus sink with a RAT 4 gun, what do you see? I see a rat4 gun in a faction that has wide access to stationary and knockdown, with RoF2, boostable POW15, and Beat Back. I've got some pretty good use out of my decimator. WGK (with OW1 too), field gun makes this baby do work. Throw on A+H and you have boosted POW 17s! |
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jun 26, 2018 19:29:34 GMT
Is Wolves of Winter really better than no theme at all? I suspect that (maybe outside of a couple of casters) you can build a better list out of theme than you can in Wolves.
Black Ivan is probably our worst jack.
Everything is else is OK.
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Post by auraco on Jun 26, 2018 19:30:03 GMT
I see a rat4 gun in a faction that has wide access to stationary and knockdown, with RoF2, boostable POW15, and Beat Back. I've got some pretty good use out of my decimator. WGK (with OW1 too), field gun makes this baby do work. Throw on A+H and you have boosted POW 17s! How do you manage to hit with the rat 5 field gun? |
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Post by jonnyboy on Jun 26, 2018 19:48:58 GMT
I've got some pretty good use out of my decimator. WGK (with OW1 too), field gun makes this baby do work. Throw on A+H and you have boosted POW 17s! How do you manage to hit with the rat 5 field gun? Kovnik joe for a +2 and position is such a way you can aim. Rat 7 is good and rat 9 is better. And honestly you're aiming at large targets, hopefully you're not shooting infantry. Def 12 is on the high end of what you're shooting unless you'revs legion which cant be knocked down anyways. |
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Post by thematsjo on Jun 26, 2018 20:38:40 GMT
Enlighten me. I see a focus sink with a RAT 4 gun, what do you see? boostable Sounds like we see the same thing but you judge it differently, interesting. I'd rather pay three more points to take a Grolar with built-in Knockdown capabilities or something with blast damage instead. In a world with POW 20 cannons on chariots it doesn't "speak" to me at all. Also: revolver guns? What are we, Cygnar or something? |
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