germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
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Post by germanicus on Jun 25, 2018 18:00:37 GMT
Garryth just needs something to hit more reliably Gallows. Give him Overrun, wouldn't that be fun?!
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Post by oncomingstorm on Jun 25, 2018 18:15:42 GMT
Unfortunate about garryth and thryon. Thyron is a great caster. Changes aren’t needed. Garryth just needs something to hit more reliably Gallows. He needs to swap ground zero for flashing blade.
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Post by psycomonky on Jun 25, 2018 19:06:15 GMT
He needs a total rework. His half jack/half infantry design doesnt work with themes. His feat does almost nothing for an infantry army and his spell list outside of spellpiecer just doesn't work. If the matchup doesn't call for spellpiecer then he is butcher 1 with no feat and no spells.
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Jun 25, 2018 19:11:33 GMT
He needs a total rework. His half jack/half infantry design doesnt work with themes. His feat does almost nothing for an infantry army and his spell list outside of spellpiecer just doesn't work. If the matchup doesn't call for spellpiecer then he is butcher 1 with no feat and no spells. Not really, he just needs to swap one spell and gain resourceful.
If you're playing him jack heavy you use feat to get in a nice strong alpha, if you're using a dude spam list you just shove dudes down the enemies throat while you position Thyron to kill their caster and use feat for that purpose.
Spellpiercer and onslaught are great in specific situations, while sure i'd rather he just have +2MAT/STR/Armor and lose storm rager i doubt they would do that. I think he's 90% of the way to being great... he just needs a slight tweak.
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tanan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 209
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Post by tanan on Jun 25, 2018 20:25:32 GMT
IMHO, Resourceful is somewhat useless ability in a faction with effectively limitless focus. Flashing blade would be somewhat good for jack killing, if we had universal ARM debuffs like Gorman or Ragman. But because we don’t have those models, cleave pretty much does the same.
I would lower Storm Rager cost to 2 and increase ground zero range to 3” or 4”. This would make them much more appealing to cast.
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Jun 25, 2018 20:37:54 GMT
IMHO, Resourceful is somewhat useless ability in a faction with effectively limitless focus. Flashing blade would be somewhat good for jack killing, if we had universal ARM debuffs like Gorman or Ragman. But because we don’t have those models, cleave pretty much does the same. I would lower Storm Rager cost to 2 and increase ground zero range to 3” or 4”. This would make them much more appealing to cast. Sigh.... you can't use power up on thyron... so lets say you're upkeeping storm rager on thyron, assail on youre heavy jack, and you need thyron to kill a heavy warjack with arcane shield. You have 2 focus after you cast spell piercer, you charge, buy 2 and are camping zero... hope you killed that jack in 3 hits... now if you had resourceful you woulda had two more focus to camp or buy more attacks... how is that useless?
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tanan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 209
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Post by tanan on Jun 25, 2018 20:44:14 GMT
Is there a caster that could oneround an arcane shielded warjack without a feat?
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Jun 25, 2018 20:47:30 GMT
Is there a caster that could oneround an arcane shielded warjack without a feat? Butcher, thyron, reznik, probably more...
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Jun 25, 2018 20:49:27 GMT
Also, i never said he had to one round it, it could have been softened up by ranged attacks or anything else really.
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tanan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 209
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Post by tanan on Jun 25, 2018 21:05:39 GMT
Also, i never said he had to one round it, it could have been softened up by ranged attacks or anything else really. You know, you could drop the Assail and get a free upkeep from Sylys. Another solution would be to upkeep Assail, cast Spellpiercer, get some free focus and concentrated power from arcanists and kill the enemy heavy with your own heavy. As if he is meant to do that or something...
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Jun 25, 2018 21:14:12 GMT
Also, i never said he had to one round it, it could have been softened up by ranged attacks or anything else really. You know, you could drop the Assail and get a free upkeep from Sylys. Another solution would be to upkeep Assail, cast Spellpierecer, get some free focus and concentrated power from arcanists and kill the enemy heavy with your own heavy. As if he is meant to do that or something... Of all casters in the faction thyron wants the fane knight guardian more than anyone else. So there goes your sylys plan. Did you know warmachine takes place on a 48"x48" table? Your heavy warjack may not be in range, may not have LOS, may be engaged, may have another warjack he needs to attack... Thyron is built to do work, there are way better casters to play in faction if you want to hide behind a wall and let your jacks do the work.
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tanan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 209
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Post by tanan on Jun 25, 2018 21:36:11 GMT
I somewhat disagree. Thyron is definitely one of our strongest jack-casters.
And the Fane guardian is probably the worst solo in the faction.
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Jun 25, 2018 21:51:52 GMT
I somewhat disagree. Thyron is definitely one of our strongest jack-casters. And the Fane guardian is probably the worst solo in the faction. You disagree with what? I never said you cant play him as a jack caster. How would anything I've proposed limit his ability to play him with jacks?
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Jun 25, 2018 21:55:16 GMT
I somewhat disagree. Thyron is definitely one of our strongest jack-casters. And the Fane guardian is probably the worst solo in the faction. Im done trying to debate with someone who continually drops his opinions like they're definative statements...
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Post by psycomonky on Jun 25, 2018 22:00:06 GMT
I somewhat disagree. Thyron is definitely one of our strongest jack-casters. And the Fane guardian is probably the worst solo in the faction.
wooo, lets not go crazy there.
Thyron is a wanna be jack caster with not enough focus to do anything. And if you take a jack army with its own focus then just take a better caster. Cleave is effectively a couple extra attacks per game where your opponent is nice enough to give them to you. Assail is a weak boundless charge. The feat is cool on jacks, that's it in the warjack support department.
Is there a caster that could oneround an arcane shielded warjack without a feat?
The correct question is how many warcasters can threaten to kill a warjack WHILE either being able to survive a stiff breeze after OR being able to contribute to the fight if the caster doesnt go in. Butcher can survive Reznick can provide valuable support with a number of abilities. Thyron can do neither unless you want to rely on his defense keeping him alive.
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