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Post by macdaddy on Jun 8, 2018 16:54:00 GMT
Typically in my experience all you have to do is shut down tough, and then you can easily overwhelm stay death. True ... however grievous wounds shuts down both pretty effectively. What other method of shutting down tough in the protectorate would you recommend vs models with steady? Continuous effects really crap on things like stay death +tough. Making your opponent roll more dice increases the odds of landing a permanent kill. So fire is our friend there. So the book, Repenters, Revelator, Cleansers, ETC. Other than that though we have a distinct lack of tough/healing denial in faction. Cinerators will be a nice option when CiD drops. They also have fire swords...which makes them potent against multiwounds like Cats.
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Jun 9, 2018 1:22:51 GMT
It always makes me laugh when people think that the only models in a makeda2 double kitty list is her cats x.x I take advantage of it ALL THE FREAK'N TIME by pulling off a malik missile or doing a 1 model assassination with Rhadeim under storm rager. The fact that it's critical greivous wounds also really hurts when you're dealing with def 13, arm 19 with dodge on weapons with a half inch range. It's VERY true that Mak2 would have to play a completely different game against a flame bringer cav list, but it would still be the same 'ol same 'ol. Basically, it really becomes a contest of skill and positioning for that match up. Because of how I've fine tuned my list, using martyrdom even a couple times would bring about a swift end to the match up, not because of a kitty cat waterfall but because I included other tactics that gives it more flexibility. If she were a smaller base size, however, I'd definitely pick a different list to pair against her.
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Post by macdaddy on Jun 9, 2018 14:43:26 GMT
demonic I don’t doubt your skorne list is good, but I do think you are underestimating the prot drop a bit. It’s not like you won’t be able to anticipate Molik after all. If I owned double flake bringers I would play the crap out of them, because they are some of the best cav in the game, and are even better when supported by a caster like Harby.
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moquan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 193
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Post by moquan on Jun 10, 2018 12:42:50 GMT
demonicGood to hear you are actually playing games at the moment! How is your Feora2 dojo going? On topic: I was thinking about this: Protectorate Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Guardians of the Temple [Harbinger 1] The Harbinger of Menoth [+24] - Devout [9] - Templar [15] Nicia, Tear of Vengeance [0(5)] Pyrrhus, Flameguard Hero [0(5)] Reclaimer Gatekeeper [3] Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord [4] Wrack [1] Choir of Menoth (min) [4] Daughters of the Flame [10] Flame Bringers (max) [17] Flame Bringers (max) [17] Horgenhold Forge Guard (max) [16] - Attendant Priest [3] Probably add a Vigilant after the CID potential WJ point increase.
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Jun 10, 2018 13:29:25 GMT
I was always playing games, just took a break during the summer of last year. been playing 1-2 games every wednesday, sometimes other times during the week, since the second week of november x.O; the entire jokes about that really struck a nerve as you guys continued to do it even after I informed you that I was back in action. Feora2 was a bust. Though the list was solid, keeping Feora2 alive while in a position to make full use of the list was too much of a risk and she was assassinated often. The vigilant is one hell of a nasty jack to have attached to harby; portable cover on a caster who already has 14 def and a 10 inch bubble that reduces attack rolls by an additional two is just an insane combo when you bring girded to the table as well. There are not many auto hits out there that are over 10 inches and can outflank your caster when you have ambushing daughters and some of the fastest cav in the game to hold them down. Due to purification, I'm not sure if the devout is needed as much as a vigilant, especially considering her base size. 18 def before the -2 would mean they'd be going all in with a combined range to even stand a chance at hitting her. With the Templar to shield guard that 1 hit, I think the vigilant would be more effective. x.x My Exemplar list had the vigilant attached to the bastion jack marshal so his shields would never break Unfortunately, I don't quite understand how to minimize casualties with the knights yet so I moved onto my rocketeering funsies list while waiting for the exemplar changes to reach the warroom. The current serious list I'm playing would be Raasheth in Winds of Death to be paired with Mak2 cats for steamroller play.
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khobai
Junior Strategist
Posts: 108
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Post by khobai on Jun 11, 2018 5:35:32 GMT
Im really happy with Harbinger's CID changes. She's very nearly perfect now. The only thing that still irritates me is Purification shutting down friendly upkeeps and continuous effects on enemy models. That really needs to be changed because its a 4 focus spell. That would put it on par with Dissolution, which also costs 4, and only takes down enemy upkeeps. Not really. Cinerators will appreciate Hand of the Creator, but Bastions will die like chumps before it's super relevant. And Tristan2 does so little else for his infantry. Tristan is, in my opinion, a very good caster in the wrong faction. He wants ranged jacks with solid shot non-Inaccurate guns. Preferably with range 12. We have some of this, but it's on expensive heavies. He needs a cheaper option. His problem as I see it is that he is one or two releases away from being a seriously good 'caster. Tristan doesnt want ranged jacks. He wants x2 melee weapon jacks because of manifest destiny. Or warjacks with shields that he can heal more efficiently.
True Sight doesnt belong on Tristan. True Sight belongs on models with ranged attacks or warcasters with ranged buffs like Kara Sloane. It doesnt belong on melee warcasters with melee buffs.
True Sight should be replaced with a melee field marshal instead. Or at least true sight should be made more relevant by giving him a ranged buff spell and/or ranged attack. Same with Tristan1, he needs a ranged attack to make true sight actually relevant. Immolation is not a good enough reason to have true sight.
Right now Tristan is a confused mess of a caster. He could be so much better.
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Post by jisidro on Jun 11, 2018 7:28:13 GMT
Not caring about clouds is a nice perk for everyone...
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khobai
Junior Strategist
Posts: 108
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Post by khobai on Jun 11, 2018 13:34:39 GMT
Not caring about clouds is a nice perk for everyone... Id rather have a field marshal thats useful 100% of the time than one thats only useful like 5% of the time.
The problem with his field marshal is that its very cornercase/situational. And its made worse by the fact he doesnt give out ranged buffs to really capitalize on it.
Its a completely random out-of-place ability IMO. It doesnt help make Tristan better at what hes already good at. And it doesnt synergize particularly well with anything else he does.
Whereas on a caster like Kara Sloane, it just makes her that much better at what shes already good at. It makes perfect sense on her.
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Post by jisidro on Jun 11, 2018 14:39:23 GMT
Not caring about clouds is a nice perk for everyone... Id rather have a field marshal thats useful 100% of the time than one thats only useful like 5% of the time.
The problem with his field marshal is that its very cornercase/situational. And its made worse by the fact he doesnt give out ranged buffs to really capitalize on it.
Its a completely random out-of-place ability IMO. It doesnt help make Tristan better at what hes already good at. And it doesnt synergize particularly well with anything else he does.
Whereas on a caster like Kara Sloane, it just makes her that much better at what shes already good at. It makes perfect sense on her.
Game where are casters are as ridiculously focussed as Kara Sloan doesn't seem very interesting...
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doopsie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 341
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Post by doopsie on Jun 11, 2018 16:46:56 GMT
I'm torn on Tristan2's field marshal.
Yes, it is cornercase, and yes, it does seem to push him to wanting ranged jacks despite Protectorate ranged jacks being too expensive to really be able to spam as Tristan2 wants. (I disagree that he can't run ranged, as Manifest Destiny allows the ranged jacks to hit about as hard as standard melee jacks despite 1 less attack, which is nice, and his feat is good for that turn you run them in. They just cost too much to take as many as you would like).
On the other hand, cloudwalls, while rare, would otherwise really screw a Tristan2 list over. So his field marshal does eliminate a weakness that would otherwise cripple the caster/list, and I don't think I can want/expect anything better.
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Post by macdaddy on Jun 11, 2018 17:11:56 GMT
I'm torn on Tristan2's field marshal. Yes, it is cornercase, and yes, it does seem to push him to wanting ranged jacks despite Protectorate ranged jacks being too expensive to really be able to spam as Tristan2 wants. (I disagree that he can't run ranged, as Manifest Destiny allows the ranged jacks to hit about as hard as standard melee jacks despite 1 less attack, which is nice, and his feat is good for that turn you run them in. They just cost too much to take as many as you would like). On the other hand, cloudwalls, while rare, would otherwise really screw a Tristan2 list over. So his field marshal does eliminate a weakness that would otherwise cripple the caster/list, and I don't think I can want/expect anything better. If we had better ways of supporting our ranged jacks I think he would be baller. And honestly, there may be some sexy-ness with the CiD Judicator (Manifest Destiny plus HoF) If we had a light that sat somewhere between a repenter and redeemer, who had a nice boostable gun that was neither a spray (true sight not as relevant) or a inaccurate shot (also true sight not as relevant) he would be a decent gunline caster. My biggest struggle though building for him is less creating a strong jack line, and more keeping him from losing scenario almost every game with a slow BG. He basically only supports jacks, so running him in our together themes is a problem. I wish he had a threat extender, or a way of speeding up his BG to make it better at scenario.
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on Jun 11, 2018 17:23:04 GMT
Some of you are saying that his FM is good on melee jacks, I just want to clear up the reason for this:
His field marshal allows your jacks to charge through the cloud wall your opponent has put up. It's not just for shooting through the cloud wall. This is where Manifest Destiny, imo, really shines.
But why are we talking about Tristan at this point? That's for another thread, which I think already exists.
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Jun 12, 2018 3:53:29 GMT
I got my ass rocked just last wednesday by a cygnar list that could pop 10 3 inch cloud walls and then repo 3 behind them. It completely blocked my LoS and won him the game due to giving him the alpha. True Sight or any ability to see through clouds and terrain is vital for any caster, including harby.
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Post by jisidro on Jun 12, 2018 8:44:51 GMT
I got my ass rocked just last wednesday by a cygnar list that could pop 10 3 inch cloud walls and then repo 3 behind them. It completely blocked my LoS and won him the game due to giving him the alpha. True Sight or any ability to see through clouds and terrain is vital for any caster, including harby. So you don't want clouds and/or LOS blocking in the game? That's what you are saying by saying it's a vital ability. When it matters, it's awesome. Just like a lot of abilities.
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Post by streetpizza on Jun 12, 2018 15:31:03 GMT
I got my ass rocked just last wednesday by a cygnar list that could pop 10 3 inch cloud walls and then repo 3 behind them. It completely blocked my LoS and won him the game due to giving him the alpha. True Sight or any ability to see through clouds and terrain is vital for any caster, including harby. So you don't want clouds and/or LOS blocking in the game? That's what you are saying by saying it's a vital ability. When it matters, it's awesome. Just like a lot of abilities. Or by saying its vital he means that the player should consider it when building their list ...
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