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Post by CrazyUncleDouglas on Apr 16, 2018 15:46:20 GMT
It's been a long time, almost six years, since I've been able to play last. In that time I've been married, moved to Oregon then to Utah, and then had two kids. My wife has noted that I need to get out and play a game on occasion, and I finally found a place that's a bit of a drive, but I could go to once a month maybe and play. Problem is ...
A ton has happened in the past six years. Releases, a new edition. I have the new Battlegroup (unassembled still), but I'm not sure how the new dynamic is. In fact, this is about as bad as when I had to relearn the game after moving to California and not playing for a few years there. So ... where should I start?
I've all casters up to Harkevich1. I've also Vlad3, Butcher3, and Zerkova2 but haven't had time to assemble them let alone paint. I'll have to re-assess what I have, but I have a couple units of Iron Fangs, a couple of Winter Guard units, more MoW units of all types than any sane person should ever own, a couple of Kayazy, two units of Kossites (that's two too many), Manhunters, Iron Fang cav, cav solos, MoW Dragoooooon, two units of Widowmakers, two Greylord teams, a couple of Doom Reavers, and most Jacks up to Black Ivan, but not much after that - Except two Conquests. I also have a battle wagon.
I have a lot of mercs, too, but from what I see it seems the game is moving away even more from mercs in regular forces. My perceptions may be off.
I'm not going to have more money in the near future (see two kids), so getting new units or solos is not going to happen very often (just had to pay a lot in taxes because of the methods taken to keep us afloat in 2017, because kicking us while we're down is what taxation is for).
So ... where should I start? What is significantly different? Am I crazy, and should an old soldier just stay in his home drinking whiskey and reminiscing of his glory years? I'd like to get out once in a while again and play, so where to begin?
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Post by Soul Samurai on Apr 16, 2018 16:10:45 GMT
I dunno, personally I find the game is moving too fast for me to keep up with now, what with all the CID and whatnot. Trying to build a competitive list without spending money when you don't have any releases from the last 6 years might be tough.
However, perhaps you could try a bit of Company of Iron to start? It's a smaller game - a unit and a couple of solos a side usually - which I think makes it easier to get into since it's less about stacking combos. Between Khador and Merc models you already have, you should be able to build a wide variety of playable COI lists.
I believe the rules are free. You do need a card deck, but only one between two players so if you find anyone else who plays they will already have the deck (of course one deck is not too pricey).
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Post by CrazyUncleDouglas on Apr 16, 2018 16:46:14 GMT
I dunno, personally I find the game is moving too fast for me to keep up with now, what with all the CID and whatnot. Trying to build a competitive list without spending money when you don't have any releases from the last 6 years might be tough. ... Too fast? Argh. One of the things I liked about Editions 1 and 2 was that the game was paced well, but you didn't need the newest and flashiest of toys to make a list. The backbone of Prime was strong, and the additional units helped, but rarely felt required (granted, I started to practically require my Greylords). Anyhow, what's a Company of Iron? Blargh. Maybe I should just go back to drinking and recounting my many Mk. II Zerkova victories.
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Post by smoothcriminal on Apr 16, 2018 16:54:33 GMT
The classics (wg spam, pike spam) still work. We have jackspam now and mows will finally get a good list in June, though you probably would need some new solos and attaches for the latter one, but if you have many of them you can try to convert maybe since it's just mows with a big medal on their pauldrons anyway.
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Post by sand20go on Apr 16, 2018 17:00:01 GMT
Yes. Play.
Rules are free and ditto cards. You can download both from PP website. Start with your collection to see what you have. You can use "conflict Chamber" (https://conflictchamber.com/) to build lists (theme and non-theme) saving you the immediate expense of warroom (you should buy it but I know it is pricey.
With the Man of War theme coming out you can set aside just a BIT of money to get back into the hobby. You are going want to pick up the UA(s?) for your shocktroopers, at least 2 of the new solos, and depending on tastes the new UA for the demoCorp. By NO means required but you will love your life (and your opponents will hate it) with that modest investment (should come in less than $100. Just cut out coffee ;-). Lots of casters will love them. You don't have the ones that will love the MOST (Strakov2 and Markov2) but you will do fine with, for example, Butcher1, Vlad2 (yeah!) and even perhaps Vlad3 with Dash on a stick.
You also have the core of the second list. COnquest, Battle Engine, Winterguard and Vlad1. Just go out and get a few rockets (if you don't have em) on ebay. I assume you have Joe (cause Winterguard). That is a very good high level list as well.
THen, later on, you can ebay snipe for jacks. Great way to expand your collection. Trade off that second unit of widows since UA is still 1 ;-(.
The main learning curve you are going to face is how to play on scenario. It isn't THAT hard but expect to lose some games early on for being not aggressive/fast enough and having your opponent score in all the places you can score in Steamroller.
Oh - and you have Kozlov in the battlebox. He is GREAT running Man of Wars. Has Tac Supremacy so he can get those shocktroopers 9 inches up the baord in Shield Wall. Fury is always great. And his feat is +2 Speed AND unyeilding. So yeah.
(BTW - you didn't meantion if you have the MoW kovnik. You are going to want at least 1 if not 2. The guy with the flag on back. Really good for speeding up your slow MoWs.
Honestly, with the new MoW theme and the handfull of MoW models you will want to add it is a GREAT time to get back into the game. Here to help you with thinking about strategic purchases. I know it can be a lift with family and obligations in a pricey hobby.
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Post by CrazyUncleDouglas on Apr 16, 2018 17:01:13 GMT
Jack Spam is nice. I have a lot of 'Jacks, even if most are older releases.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Apr 16, 2018 17:04:20 GMT
It's only "Too Fast" if you pay attention to CID, Community Integrated Development, or in other words, Public Beta Test. Which you really shouldn't consider AT ALL. CID gets new test rules each week and sometimes even twice a week, but you really shouldn't follow it since it is not the REAL game. PP is sticking to their Monthly release plan, but instead of getting releases for a few factions each month, only 1 Faction gets all of their toys, and they are usually tied to a new Theme Force. In truth, the Real Game is not changing any faster then usual, at least not due to new releases. But PP is more liberal with swinging the nerf hammer this time around (they are not shy about issuing errata for problematic pieces). I would say just Pick a Theme Force and build it, and if money is an issue, Bartertown and the Facebook Sell/Trade groups are there to help! Also, Discount Games Inc can give you a much larger discount (more than the PP allowed) if you email Jay directly and ask about it. Also, nice to see you around here CrazyUncleDoug!
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Post by CrazyUncleDouglas on Apr 16, 2018 17:15:03 GMT
I've been around. Mostly on the Creepy Card Player II. I don't get to game much at all, not Warmachine, or any mini game, nor my tabletop RPGs nor my computer games. So sad am I.
Anyways, though I have a crudton of MoWs, I do have a fondness for the Iron Fangs, Greylords, and Cavalry. Though Mk. II tended to steer us towards Winter Guard, I just never loved them as much as some.
My favorite casters have been just about any version of Vlad (though I never played Vlad3) and Zerkova1.
Fortunately, I do have the deck. I had the version 2 of the app (and felt gypped they made me buy stuff again) as well. I just removed it a few months ago as it was taking tablet space and I've never used it.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Apr 16, 2018 17:25:06 GMT
With the Man of War theme coming out you can set aside just a BIT of money to get back into the hobby. Most theme lists give you free solos, so you're pretty much going to NEED a couple of MOW Kovniks and MOW Forgeseers - and those forgeseers cost more than jacks! Never mind the near-mandatory UAs. Ditto for any theme I think. You don't NEED to pay attention to CID, except that they change rules on existing models, change base rules (can't power attack your own models anymore, immunities are changing, etc), and release meta-bending models like the new 0 casters. Company of Iron is a PP game that uses existing models. No warcasters, warlocks, or large based models. 20 or 25 points, using the same cards and rules, with a few changes. Base rules are a little different: activation alternates between players on a model basis (so you activate a model, he activates a model), and you have a hand of cards you can use for boosting or special effects. Shooting is nerfed and models are a bit more suriveavbe.
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Post by sand20go on Apr 16, 2018 17:50:49 GMT
With the Man of War theme coming out you can set aside just a BIT of money to get back into the hobby. Most theme lists give you free solos, so you're pretty much going to NEED a couple of MOW Kovniks and MOW Forgeseers - and those forgeseers cost more than jacks! Never mind the near-mandatory UAs. Ditto for any theme I think. You don't NEED to pay attention to CID, except that they change rules on existing models, change base rules (can't power attack your own models anymore, immunities are changing, etc), and release meta-bending models like the new 0 casters. Company of Iron is a PP game that uses existing models. No warcasters, warlocks, or large based models. 20 or 25 points, using the same cards and rules, with a few changes. Base rules are a little different: activation alternates between players on a model basis (so you activate a model, he activates a model), and you have a hand of cards you can use for boosting or special effects. Shooting is nerfed and models are a bit more suriveavbe. In the effort to be economical I am suggesting waiting on the forgeseers and going with MoW and WGK as the two "themes" to start with. He may already have the Kovnick and honestly if not you can do a conversion on the cheap (and they are fairly inexpensive). the Shocks UA and the new Tankers are going to be more expensive - and I think you need at least 1 of each (if not 2 UAs). Dragos and the Bomber UA can probably wait depending on builds. OVer in WGK you only need as many rockets as you are running for units. Probably 3 (and maybe 6) depending if we go for "fun" of a conquest and a Fun Carriage under Vlad1. Near as I can tell doing math in my head - and assuming decent themes in January - we can get our fellow Khadorian back in the fight for under $100 out the door. Nature of the hobby to always want to buy more to further tweek out the list but I think that gets up 90% of the way there.
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Post by The Snark Knight on Apr 16, 2018 17:58:40 GMT
Company of Iron is great, but I know I've had more luck getting people who wouldn't otherwise have the time or money to invest in wargaming to play it. Not much interest from Warmachine/Hordes players.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Apr 16, 2018 18:01:13 GMT
we can get our fellow Khadorian back in the fight for under $100 out the door. getting new units or solos is not going to happen very often I read "not going to buy solos too often" as having a VERY limited budget for gaming. $100 sounds a touch optimistic to me, at least if you consider the first few months. And like you alluded to, it's the nature of the hobby to keep spending more than you intended to. It's not that I don't want him to get back into it, it's just that I sometimes think some players fon't realise how difficult the hobby can be for people with different circumstances, so I want to try to keep things realistic, and suggest manageable alternatives. Hence Company of Iron. Much lower barrier to entry than Warmachine I believe, espe ially if you already have any models, while still using much of the same rules so should feel familiar. If you can find players of course.
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Post by sand20go on Apr 16, 2018 18:11:38 GMT
we can get our fellow Khadorian back in the fight for under $100 out the door. getting new units or solos is not going to happen very often I read "not going to buy solos too often" as having a VERY limited budget for gaming. $100 sounds a touch optimistic to me, at least if you consider the first few months. And like you alluded to, it's the nature of the hobby to keep spending more than you intended to. It's not that I don't want him to get back into it, it's just that I sometimes think some players fon't realise how difficult the hobby can be for people with different circumstances, so I want to try to keep things realistic, and suggest manageable alternatives. Hence Company of Iron. Much lower barrier to entry than Warmachine I believe, espe ially if you already have any models, while still using much of the same rules so should feel familiar. If you can find players of course. Reflects my bias that people trotted out CoI for a bit first when it sold. Said, "well that is cute" and then went back to tooling up their Warmachine games for big cons.
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Post by borderprince on Apr 16, 2018 18:48:05 GMT
If you're not trying to build The Most Powerful Khador Army EverTM, then you're probably able to get by with fairly limited investment. The Conquest helps, as it gives you a way to spend a fair chunk of points on an effective model, even in a 75 point list (Conquest will run you about 1/3 of your total points allowance).
That said: 1 - it's the nature of the industry for some new releases to be very desirable; 2 - given the way you list your collection, it sounds like you're something of a completionist (and then some - two units of Kossites!). So those first steps might end up progressing ever further...
The current game tends to use themes to design lists. Khador themes aren't caster specific anymore (some factions have themes with only some of their casters). These limit the available units and solos. Most allow mercenaries (typically a single unit and a single solo), although Winterguard Kommand does not permit character solos. Worth remembering that because of how the Partisan rules work, Kayazy units are mercenaries for theme list purposes, but then become Friendly Faction models due to the partisan rule. This is important because many buff spells and feats are now limited to friendly faction models compared to Mk2. Assassins are still a decent unit (although because Iron Flesh has changed, they're now longer unhittable killing machines). Kayazy Eliminators are almost always a nice pick if you aren't using the merc option for anything else, as they are really helpful for scenario play.
Other mercs (Nyss, for example) can be made friendly faction by including Valachev, a character UA who is a ranking officer. If you don't have him yet, adding him would be a cheap way to add a fairly hefty merc unit in theme lists. Another possibility is using him to make Aiyana & Holt friendly faction. Aiyana's damage buff became friendly faction in the Mk3 transition, so this is helpful, although A&H are often included in lists to make sure she can give a model/unit magic weapons. This was a big concern for a time because of a particular popular Cryx theme, although that theme has become less popular.
Based on what you've said, some possibilities:
Winter Guard Kommand - this can be played with lots and lots of Winterguard Rockets, or fewer. Sometimes played as a jack heavy list because one theme benefit is Advance Move for a 1 jack for each Winter Guard unit in the list. Getting Khador jacks an extra 4" up the table can be helpful. Widowmakers can be included.
I have really enjoyed Vlad1, a unit of Winter Guard infantry with the command attachment, a unit of WG Riflemen + rockets (they can take those now, that's a change for you), the Gun(Fun) Carriage and then filling the points with jacks. It's fairly flexible.
But there's plenty of options here. Someone's been running Butcher3 in this theme with the Gun Carriage too. Irusk2 always loves Winterguard. I'd consider Irusk2 + Conquest + your winterguard + Kayazy assassins with Underboss as a playable build.
Legion of Steel - the Iron Fang theme, so possibly right up your alley. Irusks can use this well, as can Zerkova1. There's one new solo for Iron Fangs (Skirova) but she shouldn't be that expensive and if you have a spare Iron Fang model and can find a female head from somewhere (you may be able to buy/trade a single head from another player), you could convert a version anyway.
Armored Korp - the Man of War theme. Just been through playtesting with various new MoW models, so we're not certain how it will turn out. But MoW are definitely playable now, in contrast to Mk2. The Shocktroopers were good before the playtest (they have a nice to have, but not essential, new UA). Hopefully the other units will turn out well. The Drakhun is not talked about that much but remains a solid piece. The MoW Kovnik is important in improving the speed of MoW units (especially the Shock troopers). Irusk1 and Irusk2 are both solid choices. The Battlebox caster, Kozlov, is also good with MoW (including Shocktroopers) so would also be a good place to start.
What isn't clear yet is quite how essential the new models which were playtested will be to the effectiveness of the theme. I was quite happily planning some MoW lists before the new models were revealed and thought the lists would be playable, so the new models probably aren't essential.
Jaws of the Wolf - Kayazy + jacks (and Widowmakers). Not the best theme out there, but if you've got lots of Kayazy and some jacks, you could try it. Strakhov1 runs it quite well.
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Post by CrazyUncleDouglas on Apr 16, 2018 18:53:20 GMT
Both views are appreciated, really. Honestly, in the right position or time of the year, $100 is easier than others. Also, I may sell off my Circle, Cryx, and Minions some time, so that could always turn around to more loyal Khador forces.
Side Note: I think my wife also wants me to get into the hobby because she's excited about the idea of painting. She's not a wargamer, but she loves the art aspect.
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