Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Mar 3, 2018 16:22:41 GMT
If I was to compare this to the pre CID Victor I'd sand my nipples with lemon soaked 40grit. But I think PP know where some collossals stand in the meta and will come round to them in CIDs. So far I'd say the base units of CG are solid. I haven't looked at the stats on any of their stuff and written it off as trash. I am concerned about how all corners they are though. In terms of ADR and tourneys, covering so much ground with a single list seems strong. Yeah, the limited factions are consistently coming out stronger because of this. they cover more angles with less models, so their lists do better in a tournament where there's a wide variety of good stuff to face. This new faction ahs me again saying Menoth needs a workaround to fire immunity, as well. We literally can't shoot more than half their crap.
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Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Lanz on Mar 3, 2018 17:28:35 GMT
Silly comparison. It's obviously a Blightbringer, not a Judicator. Literally nothing else in the game has that kind of aura+shot buffing mechanic and that's obviously the Vulcan's main feature. PS. Please don't forget to remind me about the choir tax and non comparison of models in different factions. It might just be me personally, but my first reminder would be that you have a CID right around the Firetrucking corner.
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Post by jagius021 on Mar 3, 2018 20:08:03 GMT
Someone get a pickaxe because this thread has become a salt mine.
I am excited for this new and interesting faction, and find everything to be pretty well balanced. Especially the colossal that removes immunity, such a cool concept! I like that you must choose the same vent option as the one you utilize as your aura. Increasing the number of utility abilities but also the difficult decisions you have to make as a player is a balancing factor in and of itself. You might opt to soften up warjack at range, but then won't have the infantry clearing that anti tough or anti immunity offers.
Especially excited for how this can be leveraged against sparknodes (and I play cygnar!)
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Post by mcdermott on Mar 3, 2018 20:39:46 GMT
Someone get a pickaxe because this thread has become a salt mine. I am excited for this new and interesting faction, and find everything to be pretty well balanced. Especially the colossal that removes immunity, such a cool concept! I like that you must choose the same vent option as the one you utilize as your aura. Increasing the number of utility abilities but also the difficult decisions you have to make as a player is a balancing factor in and of itself. You might opt to soften up warjack at range, but then won't have the infantry clearing that anti tough or anti immunity offers. Especially excited for how this can be leveraged against sparknodes (and I play cygnar!) Every fourm becomes a salt mine as release time comes around. Its a continual reminder that most games are right in either viciously moderating or doing away with forums entirely.
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Haight
Junior Strategist
Posts: 396
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Post by Haight on Mar 4, 2018 14:29:56 GMT
Someone get a pickaxe because this thread has become a salt mine. I am excited for this new and interesting faction, and find everything to be pretty well balanced. Especially the colossal that removes immunity, such a cool concept! I like that you must choose the same vent option as the one you utilize as your aura. Increasing the number of utility abilities but also the difficult decisions you have to make as a player is a balancing factor in and of itself. You might opt to soften up warjack at range, but then won't have the infantry clearing that anti tough or anti immunity offers. Especially excited for how this can be leveraged against sparknodes (and I play cygnar!) Every fourm becomes a salt mine as release time comes around. Its a continual reminder that most games are right in either viciously moderating or doing away with forums entirely. I don't think you actually believe this. Elsewise why post here as opposed to the eternally positive ,and I daresay now bereft of intellectual content worth discussing, official pp forums? Viciously moderated forums obliquely inform your customers you have heard their complaints and do not care. Shut down forums indicate they no longer want to even hear. I know you cannot be so keen for the game forum equivalent of North Korea where your options are all adulation all the time for the Dear and Great leaders (devs?), or proverbial gulag. How do I know? You're here posting in a place where disagreement and discussion are fostered and not suppressed. If you actually valued the viciously moderated forums value, you'd spend your time posting there. Well, in the approximately 8 places they still allow that. The reality is you don't agree with those who don't share your feelings on the state of the game. That's fine. Debate or ignore them as you choose. But let's not give credence to the notion that the main forums are anything but an absolute shade of their formet self (and I fully acknowledge their past issues, I actually worked to improve them and resigned in protest over what was done to them), and CID forums are little more than hyper regulated crowd sourced playtesting nearly free of charge. Even those are getting thorny a bit now that the early euphoria of "getting in on design" (which we most certainly are not) has worn off and lost it's lustre. Another issue you completely ignore with this incredulous statement is that the Facebook groups are now the main thrust if community interaction, and 100% out of the control of the company. If you think that's a good public face for your game, you are very wrong. By contrast if you think minis forums are bad, spend time on blizzards forums. This place, and I daresay the old forums, will appear like a candle of illumination by comparison. That place may be difficult to wade through, but at least blizzard allows their customers some measure of voice, and doesn't insult them by running their communication assets like a particularly vapid daycare lorded over by a few people incapable of accepting criticism, either well rationaled or banal. This is not a position to be lauded, but rather reviled.
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crow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 310
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Post by crow on Mar 4, 2018 21:00:37 GMT
Honestly I'm upset that the Earth Breaker isn't better, but at the same time it's cool to see the new faction have some interesting toys. PP is a company after all, and so they gotta do something to keep people buying new models. That's why however I've settled where I'm at and I've just decided to play what I like (dwarves and Cephalyx). If they stop being good, so what, I still like them and then I just have to wait for updates. Sure not every model or unit I have will be "good" all the time but I should always have some options that keep me competitive at least in casual groups
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Post by smoothcriminal on Mar 4, 2018 21:43:22 GMT
I would like to agree that "new release creep" is real and is exactly one of things we hated GW for. Factions and models that go through CID end up better than factions and models that didn't get one, and the more CIDs you get the better you are.
Granted in mk2 we had model release creep instead where everything weren't available at the same time either, it's not a new problem for Wmh or wargames and I don't see how a company can solve it and still maintain profits.
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Post by boardroomhero on Mar 4, 2018 23:18:51 GMT
I would like to agree that "new release creep" is real and is exactly one of things we hated GW for. Factions and models that go through CID end up better than factions and models that didn't get one, and the more CIDs you get the better you are. Granted in mk2 we had model release creep instead where everything weren't available at the same time either, it's not a new problem for Wmh or wargames and I don't see how a company can solve it and still maintain profits. I don't think Cryx would agree. Considering that old models and factions (see Cryx) are not only competitive, but remain some of the best tournament options, I don't understand this position. Some new models are too strong. Some are too weak. This is what you would expect to happen if there was no creep.
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Post by lovehugs on Mar 5, 2018 1:27:34 GMT
Some new models are too strong. Some are too weak. This is what you would expect to happen if there was no creep. Crucible Guard seem strong as a faction. We'll have to wait, to see them in action. So let's wait for CID, before our Over-reaction.
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Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Lanz on Mar 5, 2018 1:35:05 GMT
I would like to agree that "new release creep" is real and is exactly one of things we hated GW for. Factions and models that go through CID end up better than factions and models that didn't get one, and the more CIDs you get the better you are. Granted in mk2 we had model release creep instead where everything weren't available at the same time either, it's not a new problem for Wmh or wargames and I don't see how a company can solve it and still maintain profits. I agree with this in principal, but it's not anywhere remotely as bad as GW's power creep, and unlike GW's constant upwards curve, it's entirely possible that this is only because these are the first CIDs of the edition. Even without them, though, it's not the difference of 'good faction' and 'bad faction', it's just the difference of a faction having 2-3 competitive lists/casters vs 5-6 competitive lists/casters. Even the factions that haven't had their CIDs still have powerful options and compelling lists, they just have fewer of them than the factions that are post-CID.
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Post by lovehugs on Mar 5, 2018 11:13:06 GMT
I'd like to apply for Partisan ruling on Prospero for my faction please.
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Post by smoothcriminal on Mar 5, 2018 11:27:30 GMT
I have a feeling this guy is designated journeyman/choir of the faction aka that obligatory stat tax support who makes your stuff not horrible otherwise.
Also why does a medium base arm 16 box 8 model have a spd 6 ? You don't need to answer, it's a rhetorical question.
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Post by jisidro on Mar 5, 2018 11:36:30 GMT
I'd like to apply for Partisan ruling on Prospero for my faction please. I hope your faction is my faction
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Mar 5, 2018 11:43:56 GMT
I have a feeling this guy is designated journeyman/choir of the faction aka that obligatory stat tax support who makes your stuff not horrible otherwise. Also why does a medium base arm 16 box 8 model have a spd 6 ? You don't need to answer, it's a rhetorical question. I'm inclined to agree that he is probably designed to be a linchpin for many lists. Vet Leader for Warjacks and Field Marshall Dispel are things you would want in every list.
5 points is an absolute bargain for that stat-line and his abilities, but lets be honest, he is probably free most of the time.
Just this guy alone makes me want to play Crucible
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Post by borderprince on Mar 5, 2018 12:33:46 GMT
I have a feeling this guy is designated journeyman/choir of the faction aka that obligatory stat tax support who makes your stuff not horrible otherwise. Also why does a medium base arm 16 box 8 model have a spd 6 ? You don't need to answer, it's a rhetorical question. I'm inclined to agree that he is probably designed to be a linchpin for many lists. Vet Leader for Warjacks and Field Marshall Dispel are things you would want in every list. He's personally tougher than other Journeymen, but also quite unusual in having abilities that encourage you to play him close to the front lines. No sitting at the back and upkeeping Arcane Shield while your controlled jack is 6" away with a 12" range gun. Both his Vet Leader and Instability Equation spell are short-ranged (6"). Even if you want to run exploit Vet Leader with shooty jacks, the only shooty jack we've seen so far has good but very short-ranged sprays (Vanguard is longer, but not really a designated shooty jack). And as a Khador player, base ARM 16 and 8 boxes isn't that tough (just ask Khador players for their views on the base survivability of MoW Demo Corps or Bombardiers, who share those stats). He looks like a risk/reward type model in design. Not just in terms of the Unstable rule, but that you're rewarded for bringing him forward, where there's a significant risk of him being taken out. If he is killed, you lose his abilities and his controlled jack loses its controller for at least a turn too. Interesting to see how that risk/reward approach plays out on the table though. Vanguards in the CG mean there may be at least one resilient shield guard around, but will that be enough to keep him safe?
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