andyg
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 5
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Post by andyg on Feb 8, 2018 17:04:23 GMT
One thing I've been using is the Mist Speaker in conjunction with the Northkin Elder on the stone. So rather than the 'traditional' answer to incorp/stealth of running forward with the standard stone, I've been using the Mist Speaker plus Northkin Elder to snipe stuff out from afar.
My cryx drop is Kolgrimma in SOTN with GK. Stone makes the GK shots pow16, the mist speaker then allows him to hunt down Cryx Stalkers, Banes, even Bane Cav (if you know you can get enough of them, so not worried about vengeance), can see through the Dark Host and Gaspy2 clouds, see stealthy casters like Denny etc.
In this list, the GK does hang back, so its animus is not negligible. It denies dark shroud on banes passing over to benefit other things, such as cav, as they will be KD (doesn't work on W Engines of course). Plus Kolgrimma denies other debuffs via Owls Wisdom. So the trick is to place the GK out range of too much cryx inf.
Being able to take down stealthy cryx stuff at range is strong, so much of trolls requires you to go into the opposing army and fight up close - which is obviously what cryx wants.
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Cryx Drop
Feb 8, 2018 20:51:05 GMT
via mobile
Post by allinontrolls on Feb 8, 2018 20:51:05 GMT
I really like kolgrima as cryx drop in Theory but not sure how to build a proper list and which other matchups the list would work.
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Feb 9, 2018 10:18:59 GMT
I really like kolgrima as cryx drop in Theory but not sure how to build a proper list and which other matchups the list would work. I'm currently running:
Kolgrima (sotn) - Runebearer - Glacier King - Pyre Troll Max Stone + NE Fire Eaters x2 Bear Handlers Max Champions + Skaldi and Sorcerer Valka Fell Caller Hero
It will play into a lot of warmachine matchups, especially infantry heavy ones. Probably wants to dodge Vyros, but is pretty happy into Cygnar.
Oh I am considering dropping the Sorcerer and 1 unit of Fire eaters for a second unit of Bears
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Cryx Drop
Feb 9, 2018 11:09:32 GMT
via mobile
Post by allinontrolls on Feb 9, 2018 11:09:32 GMT
This works into nemo3?
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Feb 9, 2018 11:23:37 GMT
I don't think Nemo3 can play into a cloud wall.
Maybe I'm wrong though.
Also Nemo has to camp a lot of focus everyturn because his defensive stats are awful and Kolgrima threats 21 inches on her spell assassination.
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Cryx Drop
Feb 9, 2018 11:29:52 GMT
via mobile
Post by allinontrolls on Feb 9, 2018 11:29:52 GMT
Sounds good. When switching one unit of fire eaters I would consider swapping the pyre troll for something else.
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Feb 9, 2018 11:52:10 GMT
Sounds good. When switching one unit of fire eaters I would consider swapping the pyre troll for something else. Well the 4 good options are:
Storm Troll: Highly underrated, helps in the Nemo3 matchup for sure Winter Troll: Obvious synergy with cold stone Swamp Troll: Amazing assassinations if you can get a good angle and with animus up and opponent in cloud he's def 16 vs melee attacks. Night Troll: Animus helps set up some pretty sick assassinations.
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Cryx Drop
Feb 9, 2018 13:35:31 GMT
via mobile
Post by allinontrolls on Feb 9, 2018 13:35:31 GMT
Storm would definitely help vs nemo but does the gk not need a mist speaker to be really effective vs cryx?
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Feb 9, 2018 13:58:03 GMT
Storm would definitely help vs nemo but does the gk not need a mist speaker to be really effective vs cryx? If by effective you mean as an assassination threat then maybe, but honestly a good player would see the assassination from the GK and wouldn't give you the chance.
The GK doesn't need to see through clouds it's there to cause problems. Often a player will overcommit on focus to get it dead which is when you can assassinate them.
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Cryx Drop
Feb 9, 2018 14:11:42 GMT
via mobile
Post by allinontrolls on Feb 9, 2018 14:11:42 GMT
For me it's not clouds but stealth and cover concealment to be a problem
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Feb 9, 2018 14:15:50 GMT
For me it's not clouds but stealth and cover concealment to be a problem Fair enough
Honestly as long as Im not playing in a weird meta where they want 2-3 forests on every table then I don't think it's an issue.
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Post by Trollock on Feb 9, 2018 14:24:35 GMT
Sounds good. When switching one unit of fire eaters I would consider swapping the pyre troll for something else. Well the 4 good options are:
Storm Troll: Highly underrated, helps in the Nemo3 matchup for sure Winter Troll: Obvious synergy with cold stone Swamp Troll: Amazing assassinations if you can get a good angle and with animus up and opponent in cloud he's def 16 vs melee attacks. Night Troll: Animus helps set up some pretty sick assassinations.
Storm Troll would require you to drop one free solo though, and so would a mist speaker. And you use less than 2-3 forests for your tables? I dont think i have played many games where there were not 2-4 forests on each table and that was even before SR2017 terrain rules
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Feb 9, 2018 14:43:35 GMT
Well the 4 good options are:
Storm Troll: Highly underrated, helps in the Nemo3 matchup for sure Winter Troll: Obvious synergy with cold stone Swamp Troll: Amazing assassinations if you can get a good angle and with animus up and opponent in cloud he's def 16 vs melee attacks. Night Troll: Animus helps set up some pretty sick assassinations.
Storm Troll would require you to drop one free solo though, and so would a mist speaker. And you use less than 2-3 forests for your tables? I dont think i have played many games where there were not 2-4 forests on each table and that was even before SR2017 terrain rules Absolutely events near me have got much better at varying terrain. There might be the odd table with 2 forests but I would be miffed at a table with 4! especially if that was the norm. What about buildings, water, walls, Obstacles, rough terrain, hills, clouds, trenches, Buildings
All of these should be just as common as forests with the caveat that you want 2-3 LOS blocking pieces of each table, but as there are 4 common LOS blocking pieces: Clouds, Forests, Buildings, Obstacles
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Post by Trollock on Feb 9, 2018 14:52:46 GMT
Storm Troll would require you to drop one free solo though, and so would a mist speaker. And you use less than 2-3 forests for your tables? I dont think i have played many games where there were not 2-4 forests on each table and that was even before SR2017 terrain rules Absolutely events near me have got much better at varying terrain. There might be the odd table with 2 forests but I would be miffed at a table with 4! especially if that was the norm. What about buildings, water, walls, Obstacles, rough terrain, hills, clouds, trenches, Buildings
All of these should be just as common as forests with the caveat that you want 2-3 LOS blocking pieces of each table, but as there are 4 common LOS blocking pieces: Clouds, Forests, Buildings, Obstacles
I guess forests are so common because ppl actually own forests. They are also less abusable than obstructions... Also, the guideline is AT LEAST two terrain pieces that block LoS. Here in Sweden it is usually at the very least 3, but having 3 forests and 2 obstructions is not uncommon at all (though the terrain pieces are usually small, not much larger than a trench template). You guys frequently play on tables with only 2-3 LoS blocking features, and less than 2 forests? Not saying you are doing it wrong, just that it is interesting we do it differently
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Feb 9, 2018 15:05:40 GMT
Absolutely events near me have got much better at varying terrain. There might be the odd table with 2 forests but I would be miffed at a table with 4! especially if that was the norm. What about buildings, water, walls, Obstacles, rough terrain, hills, clouds, trenches, Buildings
All of these should be just as common as forests with the caveat that you want 2-3 LOS blocking pieces of each table, but as there are 4 common LOS blocking pieces: Clouds, Forests, Buildings, Obstacles
I guess forests are so common because ppl actually own forests. They are also less abusable than obstructions... Also, the guideline is AT LEAST two terrain pieces that block LoS. Here in Sweden it is usually at the very least 3, but having 3 forests and 2 obstructions is not uncommon at all (though the terrain pieces are usually small, not much larger than a trench template). You guys frequently play on tables with only 2-3 LoS blocking features, and less than 2 forests? Not saying you are doing it wrong, just that it is interesting we do it differently Yeah I think it's interesting how much terrain changes the way we all think about the game.
At Conquest in January the Norwegians had clumps of 3 medium base sized obstacles in a small triangle that some models could move between and others couldn't That was super interesting and something we've taken back with us to England. Obviously something like that would only count as 1 piece of terrain.
We had a big UK tournament where half the terrain didn't turn up so every single table only had Hills, Forests, water and Rubble on them. I found it jarring to see such a limited amount of terrain for 6 straight rounds.
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