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Post by killroundears on Jan 10, 2018 9:01:11 GMT
So, while browsing the ATC lists i noticed a curiosity, the Harbinger was the protectorates third most popular caster, and nearly tied with Testament of Menoth in popularity. Two teams paired her with Testament, and the third team paired her with Amon. All three lists ran Faithful masses, and all three lists ran 2x punch monk, the high paladin, a devout, and the book of menoth It does seem intuitive that Harby would gravitate to this theme more than the others, as it offers: - A wall for her pathetic 14/14 large based butt to hide behind
- A damage buff in the form of Hand of Vengeance
- Free points for mercenary units ran with an attendant priest (2/3 of the lists ran a merc unit with priest)
- Durable solos who count towards free points who are excellent martyrdom targets (paladins, punch monks etc)
- Access to the hierophant and wrack to give healing and additional focus.. for more healing.
So, my question is: is the popularity of the Harbinger at ATC due to the fact it was a team tournament (so Harby could be a more specific tech answer), or is the Harbinger making a genuine comeback on the power of the Faithful Masses theme and her interaction with it?
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jan 10, 2018 10:11:13 GMT
I think SR17 has helped her stock rise as well, I can imagine few things more infuriating than a Allegiant of the Fist contesting a flag or zone. If she can just stall scenario dead and not get herself killed, then she can grind out the opponent on attrition, or go in at the last minute with 11 auto-hitting pow 12s on their caster
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Post by mydnight on Jan 10, 2018 11:31:16 GMT
Are you sure units with attendant priests count towards free points? DOesn't seem to be implemented that way in warroom, and pagani said something in the cid against such.
Edit: seems warroom is bugged. Wow, that makes faithful masses my fav theme although aside from forgeguard not sure what else would be a good unit.
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Post by correlion on Jan 10, 2018 11:40:32 GMT
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jan 10, 2018 12:26:19 GMT
Are you sure units with attendant priests count towards free points? DOesn't seem to be implemented that way in warroom, and pagani said something in the cid against such. Edit: seems warroom is bugged. Wow, that makes faithful masses my fav theme although aside from forgeguard not sure what else would be a good unit. I would take a min unit of Steelhead Cavalry for her to hide behind, with the Priest she can Martyr them so they can screen her for days
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Post by killroundears on Jan 10, 2018 13:30:54 GMT
Aiyana and Holt are actually moderately interesting to me since they contribute to free points. it partially offsets the massive cost you pay for the damage buffer attached to the combat solo
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Post by macdaddy on Jan 10, 2018 14:21:06 GMT
woah, mercs counting for free points under an attendant is pretty awesome....
Steelhead halberds under harby could be a decent speed bump unit. Def 15, or 17 from charges, has a lot of potential with martyrdom.
The issue is most merc units are competing with idrians who we don't have to buy an attendant priest for and are just amazing at what they do.
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Jan 10, 2018 17:55:29 GMT
To answer the thread title, I don't think so. In my experience, she synergizes really well with one or two things in each theme: Paladins and monks in FM, Cinerators and KE in exemplars, TFG have always been an amazing speed bump from guardians under awe, and she can stay super far back and not care in CM.
I still prefer her in FM because the paladin brick becomes a lot scarier under martyrdom, and she has access to the hierophant for that extra edge. However, the Hand of Vengeance buff falls a little flat since she likes her utility lights.
None of this helps her issues with the feat, which is still very weak.
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Post by mydnight on Jan 10, 2018 21:17:07 GMT
To answer the thread title, I don't think so. In my experience, she synergizes really well with one or two things in each theme: Paladins and monks in FM, Cinerators and KE in exemplars, TFG have always been an amazing speed bump from guardians under awe, and she can stay super far back and not care in CM. I still prefer her in FM because the paladin brick becomes a lot scarier under martyrdom, and she has access to the hierophant for that extra edge. However, the Hand of Vengeance buff falls a little flat since she likes her utility lights. None of this helps her issues with the feat, which is still very weak. She is also one of the best forgeguard casters though.
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Post by mydnight on Jan 10, 2018 21:17:54 GMT
Are you sure units with attendant priests count towards free points? DOesn't seem to be implemented that way in warroom, and pagani said something in the cid against such. Edit: seems warroom is bugged. Wow, that makes faithful masses my fav theme although aside from forgeguard not sure what else would be a good unit. I would take a min unit of Steelhead Cavalry for her to hide behind, with the Priest she can Martyr them so they can screen her for days Dont think priest can go with large bases.
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khobai
Junior Strategist
Posts: 108
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Post by khobai on Jan 10, 2018 21:23:46 GMT
Harbinger needs a few quality of life fixes.
Make her FOC7 with a special ability that gives her +3 focus each turn. She would still be a 10 focus caster but her CTRL would only be 14".
Then make her feat CTRL again. It would also reduce the radius of purification so it can be buffed.
Purification should be buffed so it only dispels enemy upkeeps and continuous effects on friendly models. At cost4 it should not kill our own effects. Thats ridiculous.
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Post by paradox on Jan 10, 2018 22:20:38 GMT
Harbinger needs a few quality of life fixes. Make her FOC7 with a special ability that gives her +3 focus each turn. She would still be a 10 focus caster but her CTRL would only be 14". Then make her feat CTRL again. It would also reduce the radius of purification so it can be buffed. Purification should be buffed so it only dispels enemy upkeeps and continuous effects on friendly models. At cost4 it should not kill our own effects. Thats ridiculous. LOL no.
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Post by killroundears on Jan 10, 2018 23:52:57 GMT
Harbinger needs a few quality of life fixes. Make her FOC7 with a special ability that gives her +3 focus each turn. She would still be a 10 focus caster but her CTRL would only be 14". Then make her feat CTRL again. It would also reduce the radius of purification so it can be buffed. Purification should be buffed so it only dispels enemy upkeeps and continuous effects on friendly models. At cost4 it should not kill our own effects. Thats ridiculous. thats not a quality of life fix, thats just bad lol
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khobai
Junior Strategist
Posts: 108
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Post by khobai on Jan 11, 2018 1:11:04 GMT
how is it bad?
its a massive buff to both her feat and purification
and martyrdom can go back to ctrl too, so its a martyrdom buff as well
and balances it by reducing her ctrl area to a reasonable level, no warcaster should have a 20" ctrl area anyway
its the complete opposite of bad. its good.
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Post by mydnight on Jan 11, 2018 2:25:43 GMT
Since we're wishlisting, her feat should be changed to three parts: full heal to herself, and matrydom and awe extended to control area for a round.
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