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Post by dirtyharrypotter on Jan 11, 2018 11:18:23 GMT
Just noticed something. Does it bother anyone the new Archangels' animus is basically the same one Azrael has but infintely better?
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Cid
Jan 11, 2018 11:18:31 GMT
Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jan 11, 2018 11:18:31 GMT
All the new choices may be a bit over the top when you add it all up, but I do like the idea. Iv missed synergies that give something more than "barely functional" down the line. With the carnichassis reducing in points, we don't have to count on this coming from there so the new stuff is a good place to start? Note that many of the things mentioned above will work with any caster. She has a +4 damage swing for one turn... On warriormodels... And has to spend 2 fury per unit to get it to that level. Given something like kryssa's feat, or manifest destiny, I don't think it's all that crazy and all those other stacks work just as well for them. She's strong, yes, but also really straightforward. She buffs things and has a random threatextender. I would not cite the fact that because Kryssa has a +3 Strength buff feat as evidence that Anamag is perfectly fine, Kryssa's spell list and abilities are an absolute turd compared to Anamag's.
Bearing in mind Primal Terrors have Infantry models with multiple attacks, Dark Shroud and Fury's strength multiply up very quickly, Warpsears can get up to pow 19 (pow 21 against their prey) on their assault shots and charge attacks (Fury's Strength, Dark Shroud and Blightbringer), and Chosen can get pow 16 impact attacks and pow 21 charge attacks!
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Cid
Jan 11, 2018 12:08:23 GMT
via mobile
Post by dirtyharrypotter on Jan 11, 2018 12:08:23 GMT
So if kryssa is a turd despite that onetime +3 damage for everyone, how is anamag completely over the top with a onetime +4 on warriors and +2 to hit for everyone that drains all fury as well?
Anamag has a lot more power, that's true, and a better version of kryssa's bond, but kryssa in oracles is more tricksy I think, which is worth something too.
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Cid
Jan 11, 2018 12:20:36 GMT
Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jan 11, 2018 12:20:36 GMT
So if kryssa is a turd despite that onetime +3 damage for everyone, how is anamag completely over the top with a onetime +4 on warriors and +2 to hit for everyone that drains all fury as well? Anamag has a lot more power, that's true, and a better version of kryssa's bond, but kryssa in oracles is more tricksy I think, which is worth something too. I did not say it is over the top, I am saying it is very strong and should be tested thoroughly. Also Anamag's feat can give +2 damage to Beasts as well, you just need to have a warrior model applying Dark Shroud.
Also it will not 'drain all Fury', Anamag can upkeep Blood and Bone, Cast Carnage and Fury's Strength, leaving her on 2 fury for transfers. she can then move up and feat, then as long as something dies within her control, she can put Another Fury's Strength out. Or you can do any combination of the above with any of her spells, my point is she is not hindered by the fact she has to spend fury to provide most of her buffs.
edit: you probably don't even need Carnage in some cases, with sitting Vulture and Paralysing gaze you can get a +3 mat buff with just correct positioning
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Cid
Jan 11, 2018 15:19:37 GMT
via mobile
Post by dirtyharrypotter on Jan 11, 2018 15:19:37 GMT
So if kryssa is a turd despite that onetime +3 damage for everyone, how is anamag completely over the top with a onetime +4 on warriors and +2 to hit for everyone that drains all fury as well? Anamag has a lot more power, that's true, and a better version of kryssa's bond, but kryssa in oracles is more tricksy I think, which is worth something too. I did not say it is over the top, I am saying it is very strong and should be tested thoroughly. Also Anamag's feat can give +2 damage to Beasts as well, you just need to have a warrior model applying Dark Shroud.
Also it will not 'drain all Fury', Anamag can upkeep Blood and Bone, Cast Carnage and Fury's Strength, leaving her on 2 fury for transfers. she can then move up and feat, then as long as something dies within her control, she can put Another Fury's Strength out. Or you can do any combination of the above with any of her spells, my point is she is not hindered by the fact she has to spend fury to provide most of her buffs.
edit: you probably don't even need Carnage in some cases, with sitting Vulture and Paralysing gaze you can get a +3 mat buff with just correct positioning
Ah yes, the feat will effect beasts that way too, kinda overlooked that. So it's a +2/+2 blanket provided you ace your positioning, and in the picture you paint +4/+2 for one unit, which leaves her at 2 fury if you keep that armour buff up. And that's on featturn. Not superscary numbers tbh. But like you said, you can fool around with the specifics and buff and spend fury as needed. I love that, it's why I like the blackfrost shard so much (which we don't get in this theme, pretty major) Gradual increase of power where needed, that's what makes her better than the numbers suggest. I think she is probably more terrifying in childeren than in terrors because that theme can get so much work done with grievous wounds. It doesn't have the blightbringer, but it does have the bfs. Then again childeren doesn't have that +3 passive hitswing. Was wondering, are the rotwings available in RoW, because of speed7? Edit: that +3 hit swing doesn't really have anything to do with anamag. Any caster will love it.
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Cid
Jan 11, 2018 16:10:20 GMT
Post by copperflame on Jan 11, 2018 16:10:20 GMT
All of it needs playtesting Lots of work to do but be sure to share it in CID. Now, the power swings that Anamag facilitates can be either in Primal Terrors (Ogrun) or outside theme. Ogrun are not an option in any other theme. In any instance, if Ogrun can not be delivered, they can't do work. BB's aura was already around and was found lacking most of the time. So the CID gives 3 solutions... Anamag's spell (to any Ogrun), cheaper Warmongers and an UA (for Warmongers specifically). Should I count Chosen here? I haven't playtested them yet - can they live long enough to get the rest up and/or impact the game enough to justify their point cost? Basically - you can buff a normal warmonger all you want, but without enough surviving to get work done we are in the same boat. Now, please note, not every theme has to answer every question. I just wanted to point this out before we get too clouded with amazing buffs to Mat/Dmg. Now, Anamag outside of PT. CotD where she can have swordmen was an open concern during the Twitch feed. I can see the concern with a +2Mat/+4Dmg during feat turn if you can deliver them. +2Arm does little to insure that and lack of pathfinder but they have always been that way - throw that on Raptors instead? Honestly, I think I would play her more like F2 in CotD - but F2 has a feat that helps by time to get things there. Oracles doesn't seem to be a good home for her at first glance. I don't think she's designed for it or was intended for. She can work, just other casters are better? Ravens seems to have Raptors for a great target for her spells again. Raiders would like the +2/+2 and the ambush would help for delivery (if you can get Anamag into position, wait a turn for activation? am I missing something?). Blightblades too for that matter. Out of Theme - cheery pick all you want, does that make up for the loss of points? Anamag herself... yea, probably needs toning down... Snacking seems out of place on a caster (though not powerful here with poor combat stats). Ritual Slaughter is powerful but very fluffy. The feat is a powerful feat and works with many things - I really like it. That leaves the spell selection. Bond of Gristle & Bone - most synergy with Ogrun and is very fluffy. In line with other caster options. Carnage - beats out other similar spells only due to higher fury (thankfully) Fury's Strength - is not an upkeep, so a little weaker than some others but when considering the entire suite... Gallows - nothing new here, like F2, I'm not opposed to it Hex Blast - as much as I love this spell... I worry it won't be kept due to OP... I don't know if I had a goal here... I was just sharing my thoughts... I'm going to go now.
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Post by gobber on Jan 11, 2018 22:24:09 GMT
While we're talking def debuffs, there's nothing stopping any caseter from bringing a seraph in PT for flare as well (and I'm sure Golab would appreciate slipstream)
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Cid
Jan 11, 2018 22:38:28 GMT
Post by albertairish on Jan 11, 2018 22:38:28 GMT
While we're talking def debuffs, there's nothing stopping any caseter from bringing a seraph in PT for flare as well (and I'm sure Golab would appreciate slipstream) Yup. Torn between Golab + Seraph vs Blightbringer for my first Anamag battlegroup.
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Post by gobber on Jan 12, 2018 0:00:46 GMT
Thags2 updated! Feat reverted; sac pawn: lesser added, +1 arm. I also totally missed the speed buff last time. Amusingly, sac pawn works just as well on razor boars Cool new synergy with the pot and an easy way to trigger aggravator Attachments:Thagrosh2.pdf (63.64 KB)
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Cid
Jan 12, 2018 9:22:04 GMT
Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jan 12, 2018 9:22:04 GMT
Thags2 updated! Feat reverted; sac pawn: lesser added, +1 arm. I also totally missed the speed buff last time. Amusingly, sac pawn works just as well on razor boars Cool new synergy with the pot and an easy way to trigger aggravator Sac Pawn Lesser warbeast is great, you can;
1. Take the first shot, spawn a lesser through Blood Creation and then Sac Pawn to it. 2. Put a lesser with 2 Fury on it near Thagrosh, he can then Sac Pawn to it to kill it and gain 2 Fury for transfers
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Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Cid
Jan 12, 2018 9:38:29 GMT
Post by Lanz on Jan 12, 2018 9:38:29 GMT
Thags2 updated! Feat reverted; sac pawn: lesser added, +1 arm. I also totally missed the speed buff last time. Amusingly, sac pawn works just as well on razor boars Cool new synergy with the pot and an easy way to trigger aggravator Sac Pawn Lesser warbeast is great, you can;
1. Take the first shot, spawn a lesser through Blood Creation and then Sac Pawn to it. 2. Put a lesser with 2 Fury on it near Thagrosh, he can then Sac Pawn to it to kill it and gain 2 Fury for transfers
Or do both. If you're down 2 fury, sac to it and reave the fury back for more transfers. Actually... come to think of it, that functionally allows for unlimited transfers if you set it up. That probably needs some balance testing.
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Cid
Jan 12, 2018 9:44:11 GMT
Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jan 12, 2018 9:44:11 GMT
Sac Pawn Lesser warbeast is great, you can;
1. Take the first shot, spawn a lesser through Blood Creation and then Sac Pawn to it. 2. Put a lesser with 2 Fury on it near Thagrosh, he can then Sac Pawn to it to kill it and gain 2 Fury for transfers
Or do both. If you're down 2 fury, sac to it and reave the fury back for more transfers. Actually... come to think of it, that functionally allows for unlimited transfers if you set it up. That probably needs some balance testing. I don't know if it does.
1. Blood Creation is once per game 2. A lesser from Blood Creation does not have any Fury on it when placed into play, so if you Sac Pawn to it and it dies, there will be no Fury to reave
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Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Cid
Jan 12, 2018 9:47:20 GMT
Post by Lanz on Jan 12, 2018 9:47:20 GMT
Or do both. If you're down 2 fury, sac to it and reave the fury back for more transfers. Actually... come to think of it, that functionally allows for unlimited transfers if you set it up. That probably needs some balance testing. I don't know if it does.
1. Blood Creation is once per game 2. A lesser from Blood Creation does not have any Fury on it when placed into play, so if you Sac Pawn to it and it dies, there will be no Fury to reave
No, I just mean setting up lessers to basically just be 2-fury batteries so that when you do sac to them (not just the blood spawn - any lesser), you're not just sac'ing a hit, but also potentially gaining 2 fury in the process. You can set that up so that will always be the case when a lesser dies.
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Cid
Jan 12, 2018 9:50:45 GMT
Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jan 12, 2018 9:50:45 GMT
I don't know if it does.
1. Blood Creation is once per game 2. A lesser from Blood Creation does not have any Fury on it when placed into play, so if you Sac Pawn to it and it dies, there will be no Fury to reave
No, I just mean setting up lessers to basically just be 2-fury batteries so that when you do sac to them (not just the blood spawn - any lesser), you're not just sac'ing a hit, but also potentially gaining 2 fury in the process. You can set that up so that will always be the case when a lesser dies. ah ok, yeah I guess you can set up a bunch of Lesser warbeasts around him all with 2 Fury, have fun though if your opponent decides to not shoot Thagrosh, they are gonna be frenzying all over the shop
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Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Cid
Jan 12, 2018 9:54:25 GMT
Post by Lanz on Jan 12, 2018 9:54:25 GMT
If they're all harriers, who cares? But consider this: You can have thagrosh blow all his fury, while keeping, maybe, 2-3 harriers hanging out in sac pawn range with 2 fury on each of them. If anything does hit him, he sac pawns it off. If the sac pawn kills the harrier, he is now up 2 fury and can transfer normally for the next two hits before dipping into sac pawn again. A whole army of shooting could unload on him and fail to bring him down, and he didn't even have to camp any fury to do it.
And worst-case drawback? 3 boosted POW10s, which you could set up to just go onto the other harriers if you're worried. I think there's a lot of exploitable power here. I'll definitely try to find a gunline-style list to run thagrosh up against and deliberately make him a target to see what he can tank through.
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