newsun
Junior Strategist
Posts: 140
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Cid
Jan 10, 2018 6:24:30 GMT
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Post by newsun on Jan 10, 2018 6:24:30 GMT
So with the CID imminent and plenty of discussion on what we want, let's take a moment to realize that we will only get to work on the pieces they offer up and the best we can do is give good input on those.
Here's to hoping we come out with competitive fun to play models that make the ogryn theme worth it. And if we're lucky a few other models get addressed as well.
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Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Lanz on Jan 10, 2018 8:02:02 GMT
I'm actually writing up an extensive thread to try and cover everything we've been talking about and put it all in one place for the CID where it can be kept up to date, but if the CID really is going to be tomorrow, I might hold off and just include the stuff PP starts with.
Here's the thing though: If they only include Primal Terrors stuff, they might as well not do the CID at all. That may sound harsh, but the fact of the matter is that Ogryn aren't a very significant identity within Legion, and several of the Primal Terrors options aren't even models that really need a lot of tweaking. It's basically just the Warspears, Warmongers, and Chieftain. That's it as far as primal terrors-specific entries go, and 2-3 of those options virtually never saw the table anyways.
So while it is ultimately up to PP, I'm inclined to jump on it fast if they aren't casting a very big net. If it was up to me, it wouldn't even be a primal terror-specific CID because there's tons of stuff I'd rather see changed before warmongers.
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unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Post by unded on Jan 10, 2018 8:05:51 GMT
At a minimium the carni-chassis needs to be included, and probably the blightbringer as well. Otherwise as Lanz says the CiD is pretty academic as it doesn't really help with the frustrations Legion players are experiencing.
-und_ed
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Post by snotling on Jan 10, 2018 8:17:20 GMT
And post stuff like that at least in the legion fb group. At the minimum you can be quite sure pagani reads it there.
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Cid
Jan 10, 2018 8:19:17 GMT
Post by gobber on Jan 10, 2018 8:19:17 GMT
And post stuff like that at least in the legion fb group. At the minimum you can be quite sure pagani reads it there. Yeah they scour the faction fb groups.
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haurukh
Junior Strategist
Fyanna, Favourite Child of Everblight
Posts: 202
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Post by haurukh on Jan 10, 2018 9:46:58 GMT
Well, the CID is mostly about the NEW models. The models that might be a strong identity of legion once they are released. Since they are all only playable in the Primal theme, other units that will likely be played with them should be part of CID to make sure they work well in context.
The CID is not mainly about "helping out factions that are related to the CID". If you expect this to be a Skorne-like faction rework you will be disappointed.
I think we can expect something like the Troll CID: covering teh new units in their northkin theme, as well as those that will be important within the theme as well (champions), some of the lowest tier casters, and reworking some really big general faction problems (the stone).
Also, as said in the OP, PP defines what models are part of CID and which models are not. The CID forum rules are clear that you are NOT to ask for changes on other models, so let's hold bakc and play by the rules. What cou CAN of course do, is try Vayl1 in primals for example, without going too much into details.... Since she does nto work well in any other theme, I think it is actually a valid idea to try her with our new tough cavalry that might be able to screen her. Also: +2/+2 impact rolls? Yay!
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Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Lanz on Jan 10, 2018 9:51:28 GMT
The CID is not mainly about "helping out factions that are related to the CID". If you expect this to be a Skorne-like faction rework you will be disappointed. And yet this is basically what the Cryx one was. I think if PP is smart, they'll want to lean more on the cryx-side CID than the trollkin-side CID.
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Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Cid
Jan 10, 2018 9:59:52 GMT
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Post by Lanz on Jan 10, 2018 9:59:52 GMT
Regardless of previous CIDs, however, I don't think we should be holding back an emphasis on fixing the 'faction' instead of just the theme. If PP believes the scope of legions problems exceed one ultra-specific theme, they might broaden it. Primal Terrors is a tiny theme list after all. I should think they would realize that it only touches on a small number of legion's models.
For better or worse, the expectation (and reality) of these CIDs has been that the faction/theme/model has emerged from the other side competitively stronger than they were. If that's the level CID is operating at, then leaving a faction behind is as good as nerfing them.
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haurukh
Junior Strategist
Fyanna, Favourite Child of Everblight
Posts: 202
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Cid
Jan 10, 2018 9:59:53 GMT
Post by haurukh on Jan 10, 2018 9:59:53 GMT
The CID is not mainly about "helping out factions that are related to the CID". If you expect this to be a Skorne-like faction rework you will be disappointed. And yet this is basically what the Cryx one was. I think if PP is smart, they'll want to lean more on the cryx-side CID than the trollkin-side CID. Unless I missed something major, the last Cryx CID covered the black ogrun and Satyxas, the new caster Skarre3, the nerf of Denny1 and buff of Denny2, adn the new models for their theme list. So, basically the theme list, new models, and a few caster that were out of line. Similar to the troll CID. Maybe I missed something?
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Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Lanz on Jan 10, 2018 10:01:50 GMT
And yet this is basically what the Cryx one was. I think if PP is smart, they'll want to lean more on the cryx-side CID than the trollkin-side CID. Unless I missed something major, the last Cryx CID covered the black ogrun and Satyxas, the new caster Skarre3, the nerf of Denny1 and buff of Denny2, adn the new models for their theme list. So, basically the theme list, new models, and a few caster that were out of line. Similar to the troll CID. Maybe I missed something? You didn't. A lot of those models were problematic models in Cryx prior to the CID, however. In Primal Terrors, on the other hand, it's basically just warspears and warmongers. Everything else in the theme list is either okay, or new. If the only currently-existing models they fix are warspears and warmongers, I'm pretty sure there will be a lot of disappointment, not just against the volume of models in faction that need help, but also because of how small a pool that is even compared to other CIDs.
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haurukh
Junior Strategist
Fyanna, Favourite Child of Everblight
Posts: 202
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Cid
Jan 10, 2018 10:52:00 GMT
Post by haurukh on Jan 10, 2018 10:52:00 GMT
Unless I missed something major, the last Cryx CID covered the black ogrun and Satyxas, the new caster Skarre3, the nerf of Denny1 and buff of Denny2, adn the new models for their theme list. So, basically the theme list, new models, and a few caster that were out of line. Similar to the troll CID. Maybe I missed something? You didn't. A lot of those models were problematic models in Cryx prior to the CID, however. In Primal Terrors, on the other hand, it's basically just warspears and warmongers. Everything else in the theme list is either okay, or new. If the only currently-existing models they fix are warspears and warmongers, I'm pretty sure there will be a lot of disappointment, not just against the volume of models in faction that need help, but also because of how small a pool that is even compared to other CIDs. Well, the Primals Theme force covers all and every beast, so there is a lot they could cover if they wanted to It can also be played by every warlock... For example, the Blightbringer would even be a likely target to be looked at in CID, as it basically only synergizes with Ogrun. And then there is still the question of what kind fo beasts to take if you do not take the BB, so still some potential there. What I do not see getting a fix are Legionaires, but hey, let's see what we get. Also remember that it is valid and probably encouraged to playtest Anamag in any of our themes, to see what she can run outside of Ogrun
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danx
Junior Strategist
Posts: 120
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Cid
Jan 10, 2018 10:56:48 GMT
Post by danx on Jan 10, 2018 10:56:48 GMT
Its going to cover new things (of which 5-6 are spoiled currently.) Trenchers, Trolls and Minions got 8/8 new things. So that could be good.
It will almost certainly change Thags2 to be great. He's not widely played at the moment.
I think Typhon will get a resculpt, and may be revisited rules wise (not really needed) Thags1 will be listed too but again doesn't need a change IMO.
Then the 3 Ogrun things will be listed - who knows what they will do. I say just make them cheaper still (12 points for the units) and they would be OK.
Hellmouth and all the beasts are also in the Theme. So they might pick 1-5 beasts to revise as well. I can name a lot I would change.
They might look at a caster or two even outside the theme but I'm not holding my breath.
If they look at a thing outside of the theme I hope its Legionnaires.
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eauc
Junior Strategist
Posts: 209
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Cid
Jan 10, 2018 11:22:20 GMT
Post by eauc on Jan 10, 2018 11:22:20 GMT
Do we know what our huge base will be ?
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Cid
Jan 10, 2018 12:04:52 GMT
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Post by snotling on Jan 10, 2018 12:04:52 GMT
I have yet to see a source for a rhagrosh2 change, or a new huge base for that matter
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Cid
Jan 10, 2018 12:15:16 GMT
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Post by slaughtersun on Jan 10, 2018 12:15:16 GMT
Of all our casters T2 is not one i would prioritize... if anything hos issues stem from him being a BG caster and legion beasts being the main issue it reflects on the caster. Vayl1 / saeryn / abby1 are perhaps higher priority.
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