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Post by mikethefish on Jan 8, 2018 20:24:58 GMT
And they make individual molds for each piece? I think not; they should have a couple of molds, each producing several pieces. You know, like how they produce all the arms for an entire unit with one mold? Your ignorance about the sculting process is hampering your ability to converse intelligently on this subject.
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Post by albertairish on Jan 8, 2018 21:24:18 GMT
Ultimately, it doesn't matter to me how the cost was arrived at. With any type of product there is a reasonable threshold based on comparative items, and this has past it. Its price point makes it something that only a painter/completionist would consider, not someone who just wants to use it as part of a Warmachine game. They've severely restricted their consumer pool by designing it in a way that it ends up at this price point.
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Post by blackice on Jan 8, 2018 21:52:59 GMT
some numbers about the production costs.
here in austria a steel mold for hard plastic injection casting with a size of 136x136x190 inch costs ~60k $ (= 50k € fixed price) and has a precision of +/- 0,00020 inch ( 0.005mm ) it doesn´t matter how many parts are in the mold. it doesn´t matter how detailed the parts are in the mold. you have to pay 60k$ for the production of the mold thats it. keep in mind that austria is one of the most expensive countries because of the very high labour costs. one mold lasts for multiple tens of thousands casting cycles.
now lets add 6k $ ( =5k €) for artworks, sculping/3D designing, 3D prototype printing, studio painter, photography etc. costs for the cast material (hard plastic Hydra etc.) are negligible.
so we have 66k $ investment cost /165$ costs per unit = 400 units after ~ 400 units the production runs at pure profit.
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Post by dirtyharrypotter on Jan 8, 2018 22:46:14 GMT
And they make individual molds for each piece? I think not; they should have a couple of molds, each producing several pieces. You know, like how they produce all the arms for an entire unit with one mold? Your ignorance about the sculting process is hampering your ability to converse intelligently on this subject. Enlighten me.
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Post by oncomingstorm on Jan 9, 2018 3:44:44 GMT
And they make individual molds for each piece? I think not; they should have a couple of molds, each producing several pieces. You know, like how they produce all the arms for an entire unit with one mold? Your ignorance about the sculting process is hampering your ability to converse intelligently on this subject. IDGAF how they got there, the point is that they produced a model that is outside the reasonable price threshold for the game. At a certain point, the average player is going to nope out on an expensive, relatively niche model. It's even worse if the model turns out not to be niche, actually, because at that point the game becomes an exercise in pay to win.
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Post by mikethefish on Jan 9, 2018 4:51:28 GMT
Your ignorance about the sculting process is hampering your ability to converse intelligently on this subject. IDGAF how they got there, the point is that they produced a model that is outside the reasonable price threshold for the game. At a certain point, the average player is going to nope out on an expensive, relatively niche model. It's even worse if the model turns out not to be niche, actually, because at that point the game becomes an exercise in pay to win. Sure. I am not saying that they didn't create a model that is too expensive for players to buy. I'm saying that thanks to how the sculpting process works, PP most likely can't charge any less for this model, and still make money. If it's too much to spend - that's your call
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Post by dirtyharrypotter on Jan 9, 2018 9:46:27 GMT
It's one big beerbarrel on wheels and many little things beside. There is nothing complicated about that, effectively it's a unit (50+ parts as well) and said beerbarrel.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jan 9, 2018 11:06:27 GMT
I guess the only thing to do really is to vote with your wallet, if PP see a significant lack of sales, especially from outside the US then they rethink the whole BAHI thing.
I don't think many Troll players here in the UK will shell out that much for a massive model that will be a pain in the butt to transport, and can only be used in one tier. I would have made it similar to the War Wagon and sell a load more through the normal channels
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jan 9, 2018 11:11:07 GMT
I guess the only thing to do really is to vote with your wallet, if PP see a significant lack of sales, especially from outside the US then they rethink the whole BAHI thing. I don't think many Troll players here in the UK will shell out that much for a massive model that will be a pain in the butt to transport, and can only be used in one tier. I would have made it similar to the War Wagon and sell a load more through the normal channels That's actually a good point that I hadn't considered yet, not only is it only available to one theme, but said theme doesn't even want it all the time. This is good game design, but makes it less and less worth it to pay the massive price for this piece, especially oversees. I know a local Trollblood player that actually pre-ordered one, but he kind of feels bad about the money that went into it (including import tax)
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Haight
Junior Strategist
Posts: 396
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Post by Haight on Jan 9, 2018 11:20:29 GMT
Another great point cygnarguy made us for those who do buy, have fun with transport. The piece is huge and has it's fiddliest bits on the top and to some extent sides.
Thing gives me angina just thinking about flying with it.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jan 9, 2018 11:35:06 GMT
I guess the only thing to do really is to vote with your wallet, if PP see a significant lack of sales, especially from outside the US then they rethink the whole BAHI thing. I don't think many Troll players here in the UK will shell out that much for a massive model that will be a pain in the butt to transport, and can only be used in one tier. I would have made it similar to the War Wagon and sell a load more through the normal channels That's actually a good point that I hadn't considered yet, not only is it only available to one theme, but said theme doesn't even want it all the time. This is good game design, but makes it less and less worth it to pay the massive price for this piece, especially oversees. I know a local Trollblood player that actually pre-ordered one, but he kind of feels bad about the money that went into it (including import tax) Exactly, Kolgrima does not want one as huge bases can be seen through cloud walls, you are looking at £120 + 30% Customs charges, so that's about £170!!!! That is getting into 'my partners gonna leave me if they find out' territory
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Post by dirtyharrypotter on Jan 9, 2018 11:49:16 GMT
I now use a metal case with metal trays (from A-frame?) to transport my mini's with earthmagnets in the base. Won't move at all unless you really shake it. Makes (un)packing a breeze and the size of the model doesn't really matter. Because of that, unlike the foam transports, it doesn't how you posed a mini or scenic the base is, it will allways fit and stay in place. Unless you drop the case real badly if course
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Jan 9, 2018 11:57:22 GMT
A-Case is the name I think. Also worthy of note: Euro-Boxes (or any other stackable boxes) with a 1mm sheet of steel at the bottom make for great transportation, assuming you use magnetized bases. Might also work for this giant hunk of plastic.
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Post by aniron on Jan 9, 2018 12:38:40 GMT
Someone hasn't seen what the recently released Mortarion costs. Not a 165 dollars, with 50 dollars for delivery, and 31% in taxes over those 215 dollars to get it to your european doorstep. Granted, 115 dollars is more than I would have expected, GW prices are all over the place it seems (although I haven't paid too much attention to it since AoS dropped, I must admit). Still bloody expensive, but nowhere near 280 dollars kind of expensive and this Mortarion is just as big as a garg with 78 components. Not that size or the ammount if material ever was a huge impact on GW prices. "coolness" allways felt more important. Just look at the far nore reasonably priced scenery (reasonable in comparison of course). BAHI models include international shipping. The added cost to international buyers is customs and VAT. So just 165$ + 25% VAT + (no customs because <1500SEK value) +(possibly an additional ~15USD S&H fee) = 220 USD total to a Swedish doorstep. If it had been 180+ to begin with that would be a different matter because then you'd have to add customs as well.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jan 9, 2018 12:46:19 GMT
Not a 165 dollars, with 50 dollars for delivery, and 31% in taxes over those 215 dollars to get it to your european doorstep. Granted, 115 dollars is more than I would have expected, GW prices are all over the place it seems (although I haven't paid too much attention to it since AoS dropped, I must admit). Still bloody expensive, but nowhere near 280 dollars kind of expensive and this Mortarion is just as big as a garg with 78 components. Not that size or the ammount if material ever was a huge impact on GW prices. "coolness" allways felt more important. Just look at the far nore reasonably priced scenery (reasonable in comparison of course). BAHI models include international shipping. The added cost to international buyers is customs and VAT. The pre-orders have free shipping, whether that will apply for people purchasing one month or a year from now remains to be seen.
Also when is the Dracodile going to be available again? The blur states it should be available as a normal item in the online store from Dec 15th onwards, but it is down as 'out of stock'
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