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Post by dirtyharrypotter on Jan 7, 2018 22:06:36 GMT
If GW had released this it would be a 60 dollar plastic kit. If forgeworld had released it ar this price it would have a lot more detail and and better resin. Just saying.
The pricing of PPs latest (trollblood) models is rediculous.
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Haight
Junior Strategist
Posts: 396
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Post by Haight on Jan 7, 2018 22:49:02 GMT
@blarg - yep, that's what i heard. I haven't seen it first person but that is what i was told. The picture floating around next to the dracodile, i can see it, you can start counting a good number of pieces just in that pic. Re price probing, eh, ok, i mean i'm not 100% sure its a price probe either, but we're not the only ones that noticed a price jump from the drac or colossals to this. I'm sure they did, too... if its not price probing the alternative is actually worse. That is to say the internal controls process for manufacturing failed to keep costs in check, and to maintain acceptable margins the 165 price tag is the end result. To me, that's actually worse than probing a small segment of their customers to see how many buy it at an increase of 20% over some relatively similar (ish) models. I dunno, i guess we'll see what happens when Skarre3 drops. albertairish - That's fair, but also please note that BAHI had a mad dash to produce and ship models for xmas rush (i know of at least 3 people that bought or had a dracodile bought for them that customer service told them it would arrive before xmas. Lots of orders still said "in process" even as the models were arriving on the 23rd and 24th. I have a feeling that due to when the dracodile came out they got flooded with more orders than they were anticipating as it is a nice gift for a blindwater or skorne player for the holidays. ). Material restocks in north america a few days before xmas to a couple days after new year is slower than normal. Basically, right now isn't the best time to gauge them on stocking habits. That all said, i'm not really trying to say they will stock BAHI stuff more or less, but we do have a track record of how they stock other store items, including resin colossals (of which there are still a few, like Galleon, which was out of stock recently for 11 days, and is back in stock now) so until we have a reason to think that (seasonal normal anomaly aside!) BAHI stuff will be longer or shorter, we also don't know for sure it will be longer. We do have a pretty good sample size of evidence of the relatively decent speed with which they restock other items, including resin figs like the aforementioned. And this is coming from me: i haven't been exactly breaking my back to be charitable to PP since they shuttered the volunteer programs. I do try to be fair to them though, and I am just saying a few spam list oddities aside, they've typically done well in quickly restocking things in the past. As an aside: On this forum and a few others i've seen people say "if GW did this it would be X (less) and if FW did it it'd be Y (still less)". NOt disputing either of these but it is bizarre AF to me to see this role reversal with PP and GW with people annoyed at PP's higher prices and using GW as an example of a company that would more reasonably price its products ! We live in strange ass times.
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darnon
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 4
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Post by darnon on Jan 8, 2018 1:55:41 GMT
If GW had released this it would be a 60 dollar plastic kit. If forgeworld had released it ar this price it would have a lot more detail and and better resin. Just saying. Someone hasn't seen what the recently released Mortarion costs.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Jan 8, 2018 5:42:01 GMT
Don't know what to tell you Blarg. It looks like we agree in a lot of things regarding the production side of things. Though I haven't been directly involved with the production procedure, I did work on a manufacturing facility that produced and shipped thousands of televisions a day (as a developer), and the themes the production engineers were always talking about with their LM and JIT delivery was always keeping inventory low, from raw materials all the way to on hand finished goods. And this is the thing I believe PP is focusing on. Instead of producing full containers of plastic parts in China, to then divide into palettes for distributors, that can then be divided into cases for retailers, that will most likely just take up shelf space in a store somewhere, they'll just produce what they know can sell. But, on the outrage side of things regarding the price.... After buying 5 Battle Foam bags at a premium over 8 years of being on the hobby, I would feel silly at being outraged at this point.
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Jan 8, 2018 6:14:10 GMT
As an aside: On this forum and a few others i've seen people say "if GW did this it would be X (less) and if FW did it it'd be Y (still less)". NOt disputing either of these but it is bizarre AF to me to see this role reversal with PP and GW with people annoyed at PP's higher prices and using GW as an example of a company that would more reasonably price its products ! We live in strange ass times. Yeah, I remember the WFB community outrage when plastic Witch Elves were released ('10 plastic models for how much!?') and yet, just a couple years later I was considering them as a cheap - and much better looking - alternative for Satyxis Raiders. Even before their incoming resculpt which will most likely make the actual Raiders even more expensive. Times are a-changin' indeed.
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Post by Blargaliscious on Jan 8, 2018 6:40:19 GMT
Don't know what to tell you Blarg. It looks like we agree in a lot of things regarding the production side of things. Though I haven't been directly involved with the production procedure, I did work on a manufacturing facility that produced and shipped thousands of televisions a day (as a developer), and the themes the production engineers were always talking about with their LM and JIT delivery was always keeping inventory low, from raw materials all the way to on hand finished goods. The whole idea behind LM (Lean Manufacturing) and JIT (Just In Time delivery) is reducing the cost of manufacturing. The use of Lean Manufacturing techniques is geared towards eliminating waste (wasted space, wasted time, wasted material, wasted labor, defects = waste, etc.) JIT is a part of that, in that if you have raw material or subcomponents delivered before you need them then you need to store them. The company now has money tied up in materials that it cannot use, and it has to pay for the space to store that material. Normally I wouldn't advocate PP buying a bunch of stock and having it sit around, like with the plastic kits made in China. But, I assume that the plastic parts / kits made in China don't cost much, so most of the carrying costs is not not in tied up capital, but in storage space. I also assume that with the long supply route from China there are *a lot* of opportunities for the goods to be delayed past their intended delivery time - or worse. JIT is a great concept if your supplier and related 3rd parties are very close and very reliable. When you start ordering items from the other side of the planet from a company that doesn't speak your language and have to get your deliveries past potential dock strikes and customs officials the idea of safety stock starts to look like a good idea if you have a low tolerance for missed sales due to no stock. I personally don't like the idea of missed sales due to no stock, so I see the costs of safety stock as a built-in cost of doing business - like insurance. If PP could do their own plastic injection molding (like GW) then they would probably have a leaner manufacturing process that doesn't have safety stock and all of that. But, buying and maintaining that equipment is expensive. It all boils down to how much money PP has, how they want to spend it, and what risk are they willing to accept. I hear what you're saying. But, then again, those Battlefoam bags get used every time you take an army somewhere, they keep your miniatures safe, and are a nice, convenient way to store and transport your prized possessions. Unless you play all Northkin all of the time, $165 is a lot to sink into a gaming miniature.
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Post by dirtyharrypotter on Jan 8, 2018 9:07:12 GMT
If GW had released this it would be a 60 dollar plastic kit. If forgeworld had released it ar this price it would have a lot more detail and and better resin. Just saying. Someone hasn't seen what the recently released Mortarion costs. Not a 165 dollars, with 50 dollars for delivery, and 31% in taxes over those 215 dollars to get it to your european doorstep. Granted, 115 dollars is more than I would have expected, GW prices are all over the place it seems (although I haven't paid too much attention to it since AoS dropped, I must admit). Still bloody expensive, but nowhere near 280 dollars kind of expensive and this Mortarion is just as big as a garg with 78 components. Not that size or the ammount if material ever was a huge impact on GW prices. "coolness" allways felt more important. Just look at the far nore reasonably priced scenery (reasonable in comparison of course).
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Post by dirtyharrypotter on Jan 8, 2018 9:23:21 GMT
As an aside: On this forum and a few others i've seen people say "if GW did this it would be X (less) and if FW did it it'd be Y (still less)". NOt disputing either of these but it is bizarre AF to me to see this role reversal with PP and GW with people annoyed at PP's higher prices and using GW as an example of a company that would more reasonably price its products ! We live in strange ass times. Yeah, I remember the WFB community outrage when plastic Witch Elves were released ('10 plastic models for how much!?') and yet, just a couple years later I was considering them as a cheap - and much better looking - alternative for Satyxis Raiders. Even before their incoming resculpt which will most likely make the actual Raiders even more expensive. Times are a-changin' indeed. Exactely my beef I guess. When GW is considerably cheaper in whatever fair comparison we can think of, the other company is doing something wrong.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jan 8, 2018 10:00:20 GMT
I am willing to concede that the model is in fact worth $165 dollars, and I understand that PP wants to create big impressive centrepiece models, and really push the boundaries in terms of size and quality. However my petty gamer brain thinks that in-game points value should roughly equate to monetary cost. So when I see a Battle Engine cost significantly more than a Gargantuan, it upsets that (albeit arbitrary) logic that I have about how much things should be.
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Post by tiberius on Jan 8, 2018 12:51:39 GMT
Wasnt there a 25 dollar off of BAHI coupon floating around somewhere for those who had become VIPs for mini-crate? Or was that for something else?
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Post by W0lfBane on Jan 8, 2018 15:46:48 GMT
Wasnt there a 25 dollar off of BAHI coupon floating around somewhere for those who had become VIPs for mini-crate? Or was that for something else? I do how much money it is but yes I have one,never gonna use it but I have one.
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Post by Blargaliscious on Jan 8, 2018 16:18:57 GMT
I am willing to concede that the model is in fact worth $165 dollars, and I understand that PP wants to create big impressive centrepiece models, and really push the boundaries in terms of size and quality. However my petty gamer brain thinks that in-game points value should roughly equate to monetary cost. So when I see a Battle Engine cost significantly more than a Gargantuan, it upsets that (albeit arbitrary) logic that I have about how much things should be. There's nothing petty about that thinking in my opinion. It's part of the reason why I'm not rushing out to buy Old Witch2 - yeah, it's a heck of a model with some interesting rules, but not $125 interesting for a model I'll be lucky to play a handful of times, considering all of the factions and casters I have.
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Post by smoothcriminal on Jan 8, 2018 17:24:32 GMT
Trolls are the dedicated rich people faction. Mostly medium based infantry, 3 colossals, now this.
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Post by mikethefish on Jan 8, 2018 18:20:16 GMT
PP has always priced their minis on material and design costs, this thing is huge and has a ton of detail. I'm not at all surprised that it's this expensive, the molds for this thing must be insane. I do think it may have been in their best interest to simplify it for the sake of keeping that cost down but I don't think they're cackling in Scrooge McDuck-like glee here. the dracodile is only 110 dollars. Have you seen how much detail is in that model? The Dracodile has far less detail than the Hooch Hauler. The Dracodile is 8 pieces. The Hooch Hauler has 52 pieces. And is larger. Hence the hefty price tag.
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Post by dirtyharrypotter on Jan 8, 2018 18:59:41 GMT
And they make individual molds for each piece? I think not; they should have a couple of molds, each producing several pieces.
You know, like how they produce all the arms for an entire unit with one mold?
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