gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on May 1, 2018 17:04:26 GMT
bundeez Yeah I see it as fair game as discussing their pros / cons for a slot in your pair enhances people's understanding of Kolgrima. As for avoiding jam, you have to judiciously un-jam with your Shaman / use Bulldoze on Dozer and the King to force yourself onto scenario. Avoiding the alpha comes down to understanding your opponent's threats very well and understanding what you can let your opponent land on you and what you cant. Armed with that information you can triage them down between focus fire and Rock Wall. It's a pretty skill testing game for some of the nastier lists people will drop into you but it's definitely playable. allinontrolls I get what you're saying about the King but when I've played this list I've only lost the King after he's done a TON of work or I mispositioned my wall. If you don't feel confident about your wall placement then yeah this list probably is not ideal. As for scenario you can easily run whelps and flank with the Shaman to hold scenario until you have an attritional advantage. As for anti-gunlines I can't think of a pair that would lead to list chicken with Madrak1 except for Denny1 Broken Coast and Gaspy3 Slayer Spam. As for Cloud Walls you could easily swap the not-free Shaman for a Mistspeaker or Linus and Edrea. macdaddy yeah his feat basically just prevents the direct hits. If you aren't suuuuper careful about spacing, Nemo will sparknode down both Bomber and Dozer with his feat. And god help you if you let them find an angle on your stone.
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Post by macdaddy on May 1, 2018 17:15:05 GMT
gdnerd even with it being dice off 8 it kills a troll heavy just from leaps? wow... If the Nemo CiD nerfs go through (no sparking off electric immune models) Do you think Gunny will be a strong drop into cygnar again?
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on May 1, 2018 19:35:33 GMT
gdnerd even with it being dice off 8 it kills a troll heavy just from leaps? wow... If the Nemo CiD nerfs go through (no sparking off electric immune models) Do you think Gunny will be a strong drop into cygnar again? It doesn't always work but that's 2.5 damage per arc (and they will kill any whelps spawned so no easy healing). If you give them an arc chain that hits both Dozer and your Bomber it's decent odds that one dies. And if you don't push into them hard enough they just wait out your feat. If Nemo nerfs go through, Gunny feels like a pretty solid answer into cygnar, especially if you put in the mist speaker. Boosted to hit magical RFP spray 10 that can do incidental blasts will be a pain for Haley.
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ravenfire
Junior Strategist
Me Mulg me SMASSSSSHHHH
Posts: 244
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Post by ravenfire on May 2, 2018 6:13:14 GMT
Maybe take another warcaster that has more threat range than nemo ? Maybe Jarl in Sotn. He can threat 22 inch and 26 with magic bullet. Bombers can threat 17 inch and 21 with magic bullet. Nemo (if it is nemo1) is only 14 boxes arm 14 or 15 i believe. 3 magic bullets will probably kill him or make him think twice coming close
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on May 2, 2018 6:29:32 GMT
Maybe take another warcaster that has more threat range than nemo ? Maybe Jarl in Sotn. He can threat 22 inch and 26 with magic bullet. Bombers can threat 17 inch and 21 with magic bullet. Nemo (if it is nemo1) is only 14 boxes arm 14 or 15 i believe. 3 magic bullets will probably kill him or make him think twice coming close Yeah but once you take into account he can put Arcane Shield up on himself and camp most of his stack that doesn't quite fly.
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Post by allinontrolls on May 3, 2018 12:53:29 GMT
I just dojoed a bit and thought about what I would like in my kolgrima list. I thought shieldguards would be nice. But if I wanna add valkyers I have to min the stone. Our earthborn really wants a full stone so I start thinking about other options. One idea would be bashers. U could swap the ebdt for 2 of them. In a meta with a lot of Hugh bases 2 bashers would really work. They synergy better with the new elder. Crit stagger +knot is a nice combo.
The list would look like this.
War Room Army
Trollblood - New Army
Theme: The Power of Dhunia 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Kolgrima Stonetruth, Winter Witch - WB: +28 - Trollkin Runebearer - PC: 0 - Dire Troll Bomber - PC: 19 (Battlegroup Points Used: 19) - Dire Troll Mauler - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 9) - Mulg the Ancient - PC: 22 - Troll Axer - PC: 10 - Troll Basher - PC: 7 - Troll Basher - PC: 7
Janissa Stonetide - PC: 0 Troll Whelps - 5 Whelps: 0
Dhunian Knot - Leader & 2 Grunts: 6 Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes - Leader & 3 Grunts: 6 - Northkin Elder - PC: 3 Farrow Valkyries - Leader & 2 Grunts: 8
THEME: The Power of Dhunia ---
GENERATED : 05/03/2018 14:51:47 BUILD ID : 2061.18-02-21
Downside would be that this is way worse into nemo3 but this should be better into skorne.
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Post by allinontrolls on May 4, 2018 8:29:53 GMT
Tested the list yesterday vs immortals. Always impressed by the work of grandma s sprays. Basher were OK but did not qualify to stay in the list and I will switch them back for an ebdt. Valkyers shieldguarded 1-2 shoots and killed some model's. They really fit well in the list. To be able to shieldguard on non Feat turns is really worth 8 points.
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on May 4, 2018 18:23:26 GMT
Yeah my main beef about the Bashers is that while they out-threat the Animantarax's 13" melee they don't match the Animantarax's shoot and repo back range of 15" (which EBDTs do if they're near rough terrain).
Shield Guards can definitely be appealing when Kolgrima is dumping most of her stack every turn to do work. I've gotten by with positioning so far but if you want to play really aggressive with her I can see the value.
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Post by allinontrolls on May 4, 2018 18:43:32 GMT
It's also for our beasts. If you are going for some sprays u are unable to protect ur beast at non Feat turns. Mainly cause I wanna drop this list into some shooting lists.for me they have more value then weselbaum and Max stone but I am still in testing mode.
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on May 4, 2018 20:31:39 GMT
Fair, but I can't think of many guns that I can't wait out with clouds until I'm ready to feat.
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Post by allinontrolls on May 5, 2018 22:02:18 GMT
Played the list 3 times today at a small 12 people steamroller tournament. Really liked the valkyers. They shieldgurded some shoots helped to kill some infantry. Scored a zone. The main drawback is the small stone perhaps Max stone + Wesselbaum is fine too. The main problem for the list is bad terrain so u need a lot of clouds and being second player is sometimes difficult.
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on May 10, 2018 18:16:14 GMT
Finally got a couple games in with my post-nemo list:
Theme: The Power of Dhunia 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Kolgrima Stonetruth, Winter Witch - WB: +28 - Trollkin Runebearer - PC: 0 - Dire Troll Bomber - PC: 19 (Battlegroup Points Used: 19) - Dire Troll Mauler - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 9) - Mulg the Ancient - PC: 22 - Troll Axer - PC: 10 - Earthborn Dire Troll - PC: 14
Janissa Stonetide - PC: 0 Troll Whelps - 5 Whelps: 0
Dhunian Knot - Leader & 2 Grunts: 6 Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9 - Northkin Elder - PC: 3 Linus Wesselbaum & Edrea Llorr - PC: 5
One game into Gastone2 which was a CID test game - he tried Cinerators to get them up to Arm 24. Turns out Gastone has a really hard time not dying to Kolgrima and I get him on bottom of 2. He was camping 4 focus but once I got the crit stationary I just sprayed down his shield guards and the bomber got him on the first shot. I don't think he could have avoided the assassination without killboxing himself at that point. Better Shield Guard spread also would have helped (zealots with the upkeep) but the numbers were pretty in my favor. Unfortunately Linus and Edrea didn't get to shine this game. I had a line where I could have sprayed down 2 of his 3 heavies and gone for the cortex shenanigans but the assassination was too reliable.
Second game I played into Skarre3 Slaughter Fleet with a Sepulchre. Avoided the crit paralysis, landed both my Mauler and Mulg on the Sepulchre and killed it. He had a play where he was going to land skarre where she could hit both but he got greedy and charged my mauler with his unit with Draconic Blessing to get the most out of it before hot swapping. This let me spawn a whelp that blocked his landing zone and wasn't really feasible to clear so Skarre runs away instead. I end up winning a pretty quick scenario victory. Thankfully that worked out because Skarre3 seems pretty un-assassinatable for this list.
Still on the fence as to whether I'm taking this or the double EBDT list to Seattle this weekend, I'll probably make a snap last second judgment as both are in my bag.
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on May 18, 2018 17:44:20 GMT
Forgot to post my Seattle Open Games, I'm just going to give a short synopsis of the 2 games Kolgrima got. I stuck with my Pre-Nemo3 nerf list because there was a really good Nemo3 player at the event I figured I had good odds of running into.
Game 1 I played into Issyria. I assassinated him bottom of 2 because he didn't realize I could bypass Arcane Vortex by spraying my EBDT in the back. I would have preferred my above post Nemo3 list given the choice.
In the semifinals I played Kolgrima into Skarre3 Slaughter Fleet and it was gnarly. A single Slayer left Mulg on ~10 boxes or so on top of 2 and I burned a LOT of clock keeping attrition parity. I end up in a bad scenario because of my short clock and it ends on CP Tiebreaks in his favor. If I had an extra couple minutes and could use that time making attacks I had skipped I would have pulled out a small scenario victory. Womp womp. This was also a game where I would have preferred the Bomber for increased threat but alas I let fear rule my pair.
Then I played the Bomber Variant into Denny2 Slayer spam and it... wasn't pretty. Top of 2 I took the cortex out of the 2 closest Slayers. I made a mistake and didn't rile Mulg enough and he was able to spam Damnation on me then Hellmouth his own dude. He accidentally damages Mulg with the Hellmouth and I'm able to Primal Rage where only broken Slayers can get on him (and he's still in the stone). By Bottom of 3 all he has is Deathjack and some random utility solos, tries to engineer an assassination, fails and concedes. Admittedly this was an extreme case (SnP dice off 3 will get to their cortexes pretty quickly) but it was a promising debut for Linus and Edrea.
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Post by grimgor on May 18, 2018 20:04:41 GMT
With so many games you did with kolgrima PoD, how do you feel her in the meta actually ? I played a few games with her in PoD, we're lacking always presence on scenarios game because it's PoD, but that's true that her spray with a mulg arcnode really help against some list with a lot of unit. And arcane vortex is such great for the list. But i wonder if the SoTN version with bears/FE/champions can't be just better in much situations, what's your mind about this ?
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on May 18, 2018 22:29:49 GMT
You could play Kolgriima SotN and it wouldn't be half bad. Clouds and Hunters Mark for days and a control feat is a pretty solid package. However, I play Madrak in SotN and I don't want double SotN lists at the moment. PoD Kolgrima has insane assassination threat, can pretty easily scalpel out solos or even single heavies and can triage its way out of everything. It's very brain intensive though and if you screw up / get thrown a curveball you need either a lot of practice or you're going to lose. If you go back and look at my tournament reports here every single game I either made a mistake and lost a key piece or fell behind on clock to the point where I couldn't win. The list definitely isn't for everyone but I think its the best PoD build out there right now and IMO is in the top 5 warlock/theme pairings in the faction right now hands down.
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