gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Dec 18, 2017 21:49:19 GMT
Hey All,
On suggestions from my Madrak1 dojo thread, I've decided to split out Kolgrima into her own dojo thread. I've been playing her paired with Madrak recently, but in general she has tended to outshine Madrak in my experience so far. Here's what I've been running with her:
Theme: Power of Dhunia
Kolgrima Stonetruth, Winter Witch - WB: +28 - Trollkin Runebearer - PC: 0 - Mulg the Ancient - PC: 22 (Battlegroup Points Used: 22) - Troll Axer - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6) - Dire Troll Mauler - PC: 15 - Dire Troll Bomber - PC: 19 - Dire Troll Bomber - PC: 19
Janissa Stonetide - PC: 0 Troll Whelps - 5 Whelps: 0
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9 - Northkin Elder - PC: 3
Dhunian Knot - Leader & 2 Grunts: 6 Total - 75/75
The game plan is relatively straightforward - poke with sprays through mulg and the bomber until you feel safe to make a big play by sending your heavies in deep. Feat plus clouds lets you get two good turns out of Mulg typically and the threat profile of the spray under cold aura and the bombs will clear pretty much any kind of model off the board. You threaten a pretty serious assassination within 18" of Kolgrima and 19" of Mulg, BEFORE taking Runebearer Hunter's Mark shenanigans into account (rare but when you get it off you'l feel like a champion). I think this list does exceedingly well into both weaponmaster spam and bricks, while having a bunch of incidental anti-gunline tech.
I'll post more later but I figured I'd get the ball rolling for now.
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Post by CaptCommy on Dec 18, 2017 22:21:44 GMT
I played something pretty similar last weekend as well and was very impressed by it.
(Kolgrima 1) Kolgrima Stonetruth, Winter Witch [+28] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Earthborn Dire Troll [14] - Earthborn Dire Troll [14] - Mulg the Ancient [22] - Troll Axer [10] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)] Northkin Shaman [0(4)] Northkin Shaman [0(4)] Croak Raiders (max) [16] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9] - Stone Scribe Elder [3]
The northkin shamans felt possibly more cute than good, but they did kill quite a few IFP with cursed fate and battle wizard being kinda nutty. I might experiment with whelps and/or Janissa the next time I pay, I can see the merits of all 3 options.
Croaks with their new changes fit perfectly as them + Krielstone don't cost a free solo in POD. They also either kill a lot of dudes with Curse or can really put the hurt on a heavy (POW 11 guns is such a nice change).
Earthborn's were an excellent "front-line", at different times being 14/20 or 12/22 (not to mention with smart clouds against beasts they can get up to DEF 16). They also have a crazy threat range with hunters mark, being able to charge 13" with Rage applied felt very good. They seemed to do everything I wanted a heavy to do while being very cost effective in doing so.
Ultimately, I agree with your conclusion that I feel like she has incredible game into both bricks and dude spam. I'm not sure if she quite gets there against the extreme dude spam (Cephalyx) or the high-def ones, but I don't think she's going to auto-lose those either. Definitely going to be my List 1 for the foreseeable future, but I need more games to figure out what I need list 2 to do.
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Dec 18, 2017 23:07:42 GMT
CaptCommy interesting, I hadn't really considered croaks. Is the Stone Scribe Elder intentional here? If so I feel that is a mistake, +2 damage on the spray is what really makes it shine. As for the Janyssa argument, IMO she's only better if you're taking double bomber. With double bomber you can use feat push to ensure there is >1" gap between a warcaster and their screen (push screen then warcaster) and therefore be able to leverage elevation to get shots they didn't think you could. I don't mind the EBDTs here but I tend to frown on taking 2 of them unless you're taking double mauler.
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Post by Trollock on Dec 19, 2017 7:14:18 GMT
In my theory-world (i have played exactly one game with Kolgrimma, and that was yesterday) she has 3.5 types of lists that i am even considering. 1) SotN Probably not the right choice, but i think the theme is strong and she is strong, and the NK elder makes her sprays really nasty. If you have a HHH they are even worse. 2) PoD with the NK elder Here you focus on having Mulg (arcing), DK (crit fishing), some ice trolls (for crit stationary and powerful shooting) and the NK elder. I rounded off with Brawlers and an Axer. You try to play a PoD list that threatens really far, and you have all the things you want to make the assassination super dangerous. the DK really makes the crit stationary plan more reliable. You probably want a bead with at least one ice troll on the caster in addition to kolgrimma, but it is SUPER dangerous, though very dice reliant. If all else fails, you have heavies behind clouds and you can play sort of a normal game. This is the list i played. 3) PoD standard This is something similar to gdnerds list here. You play good heavies and use your strong spells to grind out the game. Sort of like Jarl deluxe 3.5) PoD standard with croaks on top The croaks/Brigands/Nyss seem useful with her, but they hamper list construction a bit. They mean you will either give up your 3rd free solo, or give up access to the DK, so your assassination is way weaker than in many other set ups. It is also harder to cover a bigger force with clouds. The infantry gives you volume of attacks as well as warm bodies to contest with though. I feel confident that the "best" kolgrimma is some where in those 3.5 arche types. Not sure where though
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ravenfire
Junior Strategist
Me Mulg me SMASSSSSHHHH
Posts: 244
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Post by ravenfire on Dec 19, 2017 15:05:21 GMT
I am going to try out a BOH list with her. I feel that she can support that also. I building the list around cursed fate. And in my Meta I am seeing slightly more infantry (on average 2 max units, 20 dudes) My list is: Kolgrima RB Mauler EDBT feralgeist (or gobbers, still debating) 2x Fellcaller Horthol 2x LR max (or 1 unit LR and max fenns + UA, still debating about this) Max champs + skaldi + sorcerer I know you can't cover all units with clouds, but if you carefully place your clouds you can make it difficult for your opponent. And with all the los blocking terrain it should be doable But we will see. I am especially interested in the performance of the LR units in conjunction with the Cursed fate spell. It should be full to see a fellcalled LR unit impact hit (3 die with horthol) and plow through a infantry unit. Just hit, do the one point of damage and RFP the dude to prevent tough (if they have it). Too bad the Warwagon is not allowed in BOH
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Post by CaptCommy on Dec 19, 2017 17:07:56 GMT
CaptCommy interesting, I hadn't really considered croaks. Is the Stone Scribe Elder intentional here? If so I feel that is a mistake, +2 damage on the spray is what really makes it shine. As for the Janyssa argument, IMO she's only better if you're taking double bomber. With double bomber you can use feat push to ensure there is >1" gap between a warcaster and their screen (push screen then warcaster) and therefore be able to leverage elevation to get shots they didn't think you could. I don't mind the EBDTs here but I tend to frown on taking 2 of them unless you're taking double mauler. It was intentional, but I'm considering the other Elder for the next set of games. Mostly, I wasn't sure if just +2 damage on her sprays (and the Shamans) was worth giving up both immunity to continuous effects and +1 STR on all the beasts. In practice, I didn't use the former at all and the latter was never critical (rage'd earthborns do just fine without it). Ultimately I think either is probably a fine choice, but I'm going to get some games with the Cold dude to confirm my suspicions.
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Post by ninjastars on Dec 19, 2017 18:30:04 GMT
I was going to try this one today:
War Room Army
Trollblood - Kolgrima minions
Theme: The Power of Dhunia 2 / 2 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army 39 / 40 Specialist
Kolgrima Stonetruth, Winter Witch - WB: +28 - Trollkin Runebearer - PC: 0 - Mulg the Ancient - PC: 22 (Battlegroup Points Used: 22) - Dire Troll Mauler - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6) - Earthborn Dire Troll - PC: 14 - Troll Axer - PC: 10
Troll Whelps - 5 Whelps: 0 Dahlia Hallyr - Hallyr & Skarath: 17 - Skarath
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes - Leader & 3 Grunts: 6 - Stone Scribe Elder - PC: 3 Croak Raiders - Leader & 9 Grunts: 16
THEME: The Power of Dhunia ---
I’ve always wanted to get more games in With dahlia, I think she’s a great model, and kolgrima is a good caster to try her with because she works well with minions and gives dahlia clouds to be stealthy in.
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Post by grabsnikk on Dec 19, 2017 18:35:20 GMT
I was going to try this one today: War Room Army Trollblood - Kolgrima minions Theme: The Power of Dhunia 2 / 2 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army 39 / 40 Specialist Kolgrima Stonetruth, Winter Witch - WB: +28 - Trollkin Runebearer - PC: 0 - Mulg the Ancient - PC: 22 (Battlegroup Points Used: 22) - Dire Troll Mauler - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6) - Earthborn Dire Troll - PC: 14 - Troll Axer - PC: 10 Troll Whelps - 5 Whelps: 0 Dahlia Hallyr - Hallyr & Skarath: 17 - Skarath Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes - Leader & 3 Grunts: 6 - Stone Scribe Elder - PC: 3 Croak Raiders - Leader & 9 Grunts: 16 THEME: The Power of Dhunia --- I’ve always wanted to get more games in With dahlia, I think she’s a great model, and kolgrima is a good caster to try her with because she works well with minions and gives dahlia clouds to be stealthy in. I like this list, more boostable sprays makes Kolgrima's assassination much stronger. I probably wouldnt worry about clouds giving Dahlia stealth, they are almost always going to be better by just blocking LOS.
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A-Mo
Junior Strategist
Posts: 204
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Post by A-Mo on Dec 19, 2017 18:57:18 GMT
I'm seeing alot of Axers in peoples list. What are people thoughts on replacing the Axer with something else in Kolgrima's beast heavy builds? I love the Axer, but I always feel like I'm looking for ways to throw off the "auto include" shackles. Idea being Hunters Mark would take over for Rush. Is this a pipe dream since the pathfinder part of Rush is just too good to pass on? It also helps Mulg get into place early game.
Theoretically I like the idea of finding 4 additional points somewhere, and having 2 Bashers or Night Trolls in place of an Axer. No time to test since I've got a new kiddo at home. I'll have to live vicariously through the forums for a while.
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Dec 19, 2017 19:30:24 GMT
I'm seeing alot of Axers in peoples list. What are people thoughts on replacing the Axer with something else in Kolgrima's beast heavy builds? I love the Axer, but I always feel like I'm looking for ways to throw off the "auto include" shackles. Idea being Hunters Mark would take over for Rush. Is this a pipe dream since the pathfinder part of Rush is just too good to pass on? It also helps Mulg get into place early game. Theoretically I like the idea of finding 4 additional points somewhere, and having 2 Bashers or Night Trolls in place of an Axer. No time to test since I've got a new kiddo at home. I'll have to live vicariously through the forums for a while. Rush is 100% necessary, otherwise Mulg isn't worth it.
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Post by grabsnikk on Dec 19, 2017 19:59:23 GMT
I'm seeing alot of Axers in peoples list. What are people thoughts on replacing the Axer with something else in Kolgrima's beast heavy builds? I love the Axer, but I always feel like I'm looking for ways to throw off the "auto include" shackles. Idea being Hunters Mark would take over for Rush. Is this a pipe dream since the pathfinder part of Rush is just too good to pass on? It also helps Mulg get into place early game. Theoretically I like the idea of finding 4 additional points somewhere, and having 2 Bashers or Night Trolls in place of an Axer. No time to test since I've got a new kiddo at home. I'll have to live vicariously through the forums for a while. Rush is 100% necessary, otherwise Mulg isn't worth it. Pretty sure that Mulg has Relentless Charge. Or do you mean simply the extra threat range so you can arc spells?
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Dec 19, 2017 20:15:36 GMT
Yes. You are playing him because he's an arcnode. Otherwise why aren't you using a mauler/brawler in his place to save points?
And even with Relentless Charge, a lot of the time you want to trample into a forest because otherwise you don't have LOS.
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Post by macdaddy on Dec 19, 2017 20:24:18 GMT
Yes. You are playing him because he's an arcnode. Otherwise why aren't you using a mauler/brawler in his place to save points? You don't think Mat7, primal rage, natural P+S 19, reach, and arcane vortex are good enough reason to take him? I agree rush seems mandatory (speed 4 is sad) but I think relegating Mulg to "arc node" is a little extreme. I can testify that he is an excellent combat heavy just by sheer beefiness and hitting power. Being able to rush him and still reliably kill a heavy is a big deal. I also have to really stress Mat7...its kind of awesome in a faction flowing with mat 6 beasts. I know that especially thanks to circle.
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Dec 19, 2017 20:29:24 GMT
This is in response to dropping the axer. If you're dropping the axer you're trying to spam heavies and rage them up + hunters mark. Mulg doesn't fit into that plan particularly well because you could swap out mulg + axer for mauler + brawler and be better off.
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Post by CaptCommy on Dec 19, 2017 20:57:27 GMT
I'd also agree that the Axer was incredibly important in my games as well. If you're talking Mulg over a Brawler, it's because of the arc node and Rush makes that arc node much more flexible.
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