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Post by kuririnad on Jan 23, 2018 11:50:27 GMT
Sorry to hear you tilted, but the first step is acknowledging it. Glad to see you taking Circle to the people! Looking forward to more reports.
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Post by macdaddy on Jan 23, 2018 16:11:36 GMT
Round 3 here we come! My opponent had a pretty awesome Vindictus and Amon pairing. It was vindictus with 5 units of Knights exemplar, and a unit of vengers, and Amon with a but load of dervishes and the revelator. I considered dropping baldur 1, but I was really scared he was going to drop vindictus and that is an auto loss for baldur 1 so I choose Krueger 2 to play it safe. Sadly he dropped amon, which I think Baldur 1 handles fairly well. I outhreat his army with hunters mark, can block LOS with my forest, and can cheat attrition with the lights for at least a turn with my feat and stalkers. My opponents list was: Amon: Creators Might- Revelator
- Devout -6 dervishes
- Hierophant 2 Min Chior 2 Wracks 2 Mechanics 2 Vassals
The scenario was spread the net (another big reason not to play Baldur1) and my opponent won the roll and chose to go first. I chose sides and stuck him on the side with an obstruction to funnel him towards the left side of the table. Deployment: My opponent deploys mostly centrally, but shifted slightly to the left. I deploy pretty spread out, noticing the lack of things on the other side of the house. Amon starts with synergy and the revelator starts with fortify thanks to the creators might theme benefit. Turn 1:Protectorate:He runs, big surprise. Amon pops mobility for obvious reasons. Choir sings No spells. Circle:My turn is a little more involved. Sentry stones generate some fury. I get a spray off on a dervish on the left and do a couple damage. Both Sentry stones shift out of the threat range of the revalator under Windstorm. Wardens trample and pop animus. Fulcrum moves up and takes a pot shot with the lightning and misses. Krueger moves up, pops windstorm and TK's himself forward more. Wyrds rile and run. Megs just tramples into the forest. all my solos run. I forget to activate my shifting stones...DOH To be Co ntinued!
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Post by macdaddy on Jan 23, 2018 16:11:47 GMT
Turn 2:Protectorate:Amon upkeeps synergy and Fortify. Chior sings battle. Amon pops mobility and waddles up a bit. Revelator moves up a bit just out of windstorm and Kills 2 of the stones I graciously left as sacrifices to the creator. *sigh* Dervishes kill some manikins and side step backwards. A dervish walks around the house to contest my far right flag. The covenenant pops no spells and moves up next to amon. Circle: I decide this will be a feat turn. I spawn manikins and generate some fury. My fulcrum moves up a bit and shoots the dervish near the left side of the house. He triggers enliven and walks forward. I leave the dervish on 4 boxes after shooting more into it. Manikn sprays form the blue unit finish it off. Another manikin attempts to jam the far right dervish. My wayfarer runs far back into his deployment area to threaten chior and the flag. Megalith moves up, gallows a dervish (for some reason I thought it was range 8...-__-. Does a decent amount of damage. Another warden does the same pulling it in farther. Then another warden does the same and leaves it on a few boxes. A manikin finishes it off. My gobber bases the flag. Woldwyrds move up, blow almost the entire right half of the revelator. Shapers pull fury off the wardnes. Krueger moves up, feats, pops windstorm, and TK''s the grey wyrd back. I am not 100% sure how I am only camping 1 fury, but I am for some reason. Score: Circle: 2, Protectorate: 1Turn 3:Protectorate:Amon drops everything. Chior Battles and one chior boy from the right unit kills the jamming manikin on the dervish which I find hilarious. Amon feats, casts fortify again, and mobility, and flashing lade for fun. He allocates the fury out to the jacks. Dervish on the right misses his second initial trying to side step into the sentry stone and is stuck with just killing 2 manikins. Far left dervish charges megs, side steps into the sentry stone and kills it with its last attack. The middle dervishes kill a woldwryd each (forgot about side step being good and all..oops.) Mechainiks heal like 6 points of damage from the revaltor who runs right into my face staring at Krueger menacingly. The book annoyingly walks forward and says no spells within 10". Score: Circle: 3, Protectorate: 1
To be continued...again!
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Post by macdaddy on Jan 23, 2018 16:12:09 GMT
Circle: I can go about this turn 2 ways. I can either Play attrition, kill as many lights as I can and jam the revelator (2 heavies should eat him even if I lose a warden.) Or I can just go for the very easy to do scenario win. I like being lazy so I chose the second. MY opponent forgot to put a chior boy within 4" of the flag which my blacklad can run to, this means I all I have to do to win the game is kill 2 dervishes. Manikin on the right is created. I double check to make sure the chior boy is not within 4" of the flag and he isn't so my manikin can be a extra tool to make sure the dervish dies. My fulcrum leaves it on like 5 boxes, Kruger finishes the job, my wafarer bases the flag, Megs kills the other dervish easy thanks to enrage. I end my turn and go to 6. Score: Circle: 6, Protectorate:1
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Post by macdaddy on Jan 23, 2018 18:58:30 GMT
Final round, I have managed to make it to the final table. My opponent asked if we wanted to do a captain something or other (basically a more complicated way of rolling off) but I felt like I was cheating all you guys If I did not play Baldur 1 at least once today so I asked if he was up for playing another game. He said sure thing and we racked up. He had Grymking a King of Nothing Menagerie Brick and a Old witch infantry swarm, now I should have dropped krueger 2. But neither of us realized until after turn 2 that King has a BG wide ghostly spell...and I cried a little inside. I felt pretty bad for my opponent as well, as this was going to be a boring game of cat and mouse and I felt like I was wasting his time. He was an excellent sport though and kept a good attitude the entire time. Thanks to him for playing a good game with me! He dropped King of Nothing in Menagerie: King of Nothing: Dark Menagerie
- 2 Cage Ragers -3 Skin and Moans
- Rattler -Frightmare
- 2 Crabbits Death Knell 4 Grymlin Swarms
Arcana: Taste of Ashes, Ill Omens, Sacrifice
Scenario was The Pit 2. I won the roll and chose to go first. Both of of chose Stockpile as our objective. Deployment: I deployed duper skewed to the right (before I realized he had BG wide ghostly) to try and take advantage of the house. Knowing I have an easier time getting around it than a bunch of speed 5 beasts will. I had planned on stalling scenario long enough to win on attrition. (oh boy was i wrong.) He just counter deploys to me putting his lights at the far left end to score in the square zone. Turn 1: Circle:I run everything but Baldur, who casts Solid Ground, and Stone Skin on the white stalker. He also puts a forest down for fun. I forgot to move my stones again (it was late...) but I moved them right after I took the picture. Grymkin:He basically runs everything but the King of Nothing. He puts layers his BG to prevent me from getting into anything important. He puts down clouds to block LoS. More pictures Incoming! This is a long one!
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Post by macdaddy on Jan 23, 2018 18:58:46 GMT
Turn 2: Circle:Its about here where I realize that I will be unable to feat and do anything meaningful as we learn he has ghostly...*sigh* this match up just got turned on hard mode. I decide my best bet is to stall, bait him forward a bit (forcing pieces to commit into my zone) and use the house so that if he pops ghostly he cannot charge or walk through and must trample. Even fully loaded skin and moans need 7's to hit warpwolves and 3 bought attacks just does not get the job done. The issue is...I have nothing to contest the left zone because of bad deployment and I cannot afford to leave an entire heavy over there. Wayfarers and the Lord of the feast die easy to the frightmare or the rattler and...well...I am seeing the writing on the wall here but I try the best I can to salvage this. Also, he has grymlin swarms...and I don't. I decide to back off. Let him put a swarm in my zone and put as many beasts in the stones for tel porting as I can. Looking back on it I should have just done this and moves really aggressively behind the house. But at this point I am panicking a bit. Grymkin:He moves forward a bit, keeping me boxed on my little corner of the board. He layers his models again and pops clouds up. He puts a grymlin swarm in the zone. Score: Grymkin 1, Circle: 0Circle:I decide its go time. Both cage ragers are in port threat of the feral I just need to kill on crabit. My black wayfarer shoots the grymlin swarm with a spray and misses. My Pureblood Moves up with ghostly, targets the death knell with a spray and kills the crabit with the boosted attack and damage roll. He warps spell ward. MY opponent triggers Ill omens off of the dead crabit. Megalith Kills the grymlin swarm. and pops his animus. catching the cage rager behind the house. Gorax primals the Feral. Baldur puts stone skin on the feral and puts a forest down touching the house again. My second wayfarer attempt to kill a grymlin swarm with a charge attack but because of ill omens I miss (dumb mistak on my part I was hoping to kill it a then us battle wizard to port back to a stone. My feral is ported into melee with both ragers. It takes all 3 initials and all 4 bought attack to kill a cage rager even after warping strength...I expected to be able to buy 2 into the other cage rager to soften him up for my stalker to kill him and sprint out (cheating a trade) but that goes wrong fairly quickly and thats a big deal in the terms of this game. The rest of my army just kind of positions a bit. I am way to passive with my white stalekr and should have moved him much more aggressively forward. The brown stalker tells that skin and moans to step off cu if he comes around that house to kill megs he is gonna die. I stay just out of its charging threat. Score: Grymkin: 2, Circle: 1
To be continued again!
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Post by macdaddy on Jan 23, 2018 18:59:04 GMT
Grymkin:King of nothing puts scything touch on the skin and moans and puts up 3 more clouds. The fright-mare charges and kills the white wayfarer with a boosted attack roll. The cage rager wiffs horribly into the feral doing only 6 damage and missing 5 out of 6 attacks. The Scything touch skin and moans finishes the job. The other 2 skin and moans hide behind the house. A crabbit hops into my zone. Score: Grymin: 3, Circle: 1
Turn: 3
Circle:
The situation is so far not as horrible as I thought it would be. I can still try playing attrition. If I can eat through the last cage rager and kill 1 skin and moans I can start playing more aggressively. I just have to be patient. I Decide I can send the white stalker in, and sprint out of skin and moans charging threat if I can just kill that cage rager. (see why the extra damage from the feral was important.) My gorax primals himself and eats the crabit. Baldur puts primal and stone skin on the white stalker and camps 2. Stones port stalker into max reach of the cage rager, I am dice + 1 with warp strength and...fail to kill it with all 5 attacks. *sigh* Im now stuck there and my opponent can just kill my stalker and sit happily behind the house. The pureblood stands on the hill and sprays the cage rager. I am in charge distance of the skin and moans. For some reason I thought elevation helped against melee attacks (derp like I said it was a long day and it was late) I have to target my own stalker and do like 5 points of damage to him adding insult to injury. My brown stalker moves even deeper threatening the Skin and Moans behind the House but staying out of LoS. Megalith just kind of chills bracing for the skin and moans that will probably charge my pureblood. Score: Grymkin: 4, Circle: 2Grymkin:I am about to pay for putting that pureblood in charging threat hard. King of nothing creates 2 clouds and casts host of shadows for ghostly everywhere. The skin and moans behind the house eats my stalker. The skin and moans with scything touch eats my pureblodod. Everything else shuffles. A grymlin swarm contests my zone. Score: Grymkin: 5, Circle: 2
One last picture to come soon!
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Post by macdaddy on Jan 23, 2018 18:59:16 GMT
Turn 4Circle:Failing to one round his cage ragers pretty much locked me out of this game on attrition. I had expected to do at least 6 or so damage to the cage rager in round one, and particularly I had hoped to sprint away after killing the other rager. Even with primal up. (had my feral not failed I don't need primal and am super up on attrition instead of even.) So I am kind of but hurt about that, but that's the way the game goes and it shows the inherent flaws of warpwolves. I am going to lose scenario next turn regardless so I pull a hail mary play and try to shoot him with the Lord of the feast first...who misses (so flipping useless AGHH) and then attempt to run my stalker to engage but cannot. Everything else literally runs around the house into his half of the table to try and force the king of nothing to run away. Looking back on it, this was just a desperate attempt to force him to make a mistake in a panic, but he was a good player and I had low expectations of it working. Losing 2 heavies in one turn pretty much meant my attrition gameplan was gone. My wayfarer kills the grymlin swarm and shifting stones contest the round zone...kind of. Score: Grymkin: 6, Circle: 3.Grymkin: *no picture sorry*My opponent calls my bluff realizes all he has to do is contest my zone, kill a shifting stone and score the round zone. Which he does, and wins on scenario. Score: Grymkin: 8, Circle: 3
Well that was a tad depressing. I was hoping for a more back and forth style game, but it ended pretty poorly. Can't help the dice on the warpwolves though. I really should have done a lot more work with the feral, even under Ill omens. I also think I made some mistakes in positioning, particularly with the pureblood. My lord of the feast should have also just hid out on the far left flank. Just to contest his zone for a turn and buy me time to play more patiently. Hilariously this game only took about 45 minutes because our turns were very short thanks to only moving heavies around and piece trading. Ill be posting more thoughts soon! IMG_4395.JPG (167.4 KB)
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Post by macdaddy on Jan 24, 2018 20:32:15 GMT
OK so its time to sit down and collect my thoughts on these lists and how they have preformed for me the past few months.
I am going to start with Kruger 2 because he is the easiest.
Kruger 2 Breakdown:
Abilities: Krueger 2 at first glance has a mediocre caster statline. He seems pretty darn average honestly. Def and arm 15, rat and mat 6, speed 6 a solid fury of 7, nothing too spectacular...and then you look at the rest of his card. He has flight and immunity electricity. Ok things are getting pretty cool. Flight has a lot of really awesome uses, it helps you with order of activations and can really surprise an opponent when you fly over an LOS blocking obstruction they thought they were safe behind. Lightning immunity measn you have 0 worried about bull-crap e leap assassinations and you laugh at a large portion of cygnar shooting.
Kruegers Gun: A range 10 Pow 12 lightning bolt that has reload 2....and sustained attack. I have played him quite a bit now in mk3 and you can get WORK done out of his gun. Don;t expect to murder heavies with it, but being able to reliable chip damage away at medium or light targets and threatening ranged assassination with you speed 6 flight caster is pretty legit. Sustained attack means you only have to boost to hit once and the rest of your boosts will be for damage rolls. Krueger can throw down 3 Boosted pow 12's himself and still have a fury to camp afterwards. Some really important situations for this gun are: 1: Finishing off an important enemy model 2: Killing a jamming model, 3:Adding to the damage in an assassination run.
Kruegers Melee weapon: This has come up less for me yet. Typically You want krueger back and out of harms way. He is very vulnerable in melee. However, remember, it has auto disruption on it which can be super relevant. It just has not been relevant for me yet.
Sheltering Hand: Here we go Lightning immunity for All friendly faction models in CMD. yeah that's right, all friendly faction models. You can now laugh at Nemo 3 while your wolds bash his models in with their stone fists. This ability is not always relevant, but when it is relevant, it will make you super happy it is there.
Spell List: Gallows: Kind of expensive, but its a pow 13 nuke that pushes a model damage dD6" towards you. It has some very nice applications for threat range increasing. You can actually get cute sometimes with it and use it to pull a heavy in that your woldwarden slammed away with his chain attack but that will not come up that often. More likeley you are using it as a threat extender. I don't use it as much as I should.
Lightning storm: On the opposite side I use this spell way more than I probably should. Its a very versatile spell. The AOE does not cause blast damage, just auto pow 10's. It also remains in play and creates a 3" wide circle of nope for opponent infantry. Its a fantastic infantry control spell and it can also get around blast immune high def infantry as well. Use manikins to pinpoint the AOE's and cause devastation to those high def low arm models with stealth.
Rebuke: A really great spell to use on an opposing unit of important infantry. Particularly hard hitting melee infantry. You can shut down most units with this fairly effectively. With a very solid range, you can even do it from relative safety with Captian K.
Telekenesis: Its a threat extender, its a unjammer, its a mat fixer, or maybe its psuedo reposition. The most versatile spell in his toolkit. Honestly, its only really limited by your imagination.
Windstorm: Guns got you down? Drifting AOE's making your support models sad? Well say good-bye to those worries. I cast this spell in just about any game wher my opponent is packing guns. It can really shut down gunlines that don't exceed range 14.
Feat: A decent push and -2 speed debuff. This is your ultimate weapon. Use it to push an opponent out of scenario and score all the points. Use it to watch your opponent trudge slowly towards your lines and die to shooting. Use it to expose and enemy caster and go for the throat. A really versatile and excellent feat.
The list Breakdown: I actually really like the list itself it really magnifies the abilities of kruger 2 and everything works together very well. Lots of infantry control, it hits decently hard and is a combined arms gunline that also controls the board very well.
Woldwardens: They don't hit that hard but they get lots of work done with geomancy and can protect krueger with a forest bunker. They utilize every spell in krueger toolkit they can cast and are excellent toolbox heavies under krueger 2.
Megalith: IMO still worth the points. Mat 7 and magic ability 7 is a big deal that comes up a lot. The increased Pow is also really nice. His animus is a great way to increase your bog standard mat 6 on the rest of the heavies and can also situation ally increase rat or MA for a caster kill. the -2 def is really really usefull. Weight of stone is also good, letting you persoanlly swing a target damaged by megs in melee by -5 def with his animus. This can be devastating to certain heavies and it can make them easy pickings for your wardens or guns to finish them off. also, combined with feat megalith can cause a -5 speed recution along with popping a patch of rough terrain. If you opponent lacks pathfinder or a speed buff, you can make megalith untouchable for a turn after committing to some heavies. SPD 0 is hilarious. Even better if you tk them backwards.
Woldwyrds: Upkeep hate and solid gun platforms. They are good at clearing infantry, denting jacks and beasts, and threatening the opposing caster. They threat 19" with TK so keep that in mind. Its as good as it sounds. Casters will and should be terrified of them.
Fulcrum: Making Kruger MA8 and Rat 7 is really good. Being an excellent gun platform and fury management piece is just icing on the cake. The fulcrum can kill lights on its own with full fury, can slaughter infantry, and can put large dents in heavies. It does lots of work for me every game.
the blacklcads: Wayfarers make excellent contesting pieces, threat extenders, and infantry killers/solo hunters. IMO an amazing all rounder solo. Shapers are in turn, and excellent versatile support solo. Increasing damage, or managing fury, or repairing,....or killing infantry with rat 7 Pow 12 sprays because fulcrum! They further fit the whole theme of "toolbox" that this list seems to stick with.
Shifting stones: Fury management, healing, or port shenanigans. A toolbox support unit.
Gobber chef: He holds flags, can cook manikins and feed them to your heavies (yes it works that way) to manage fury, and he can even kill the odd infantry model thanks to backstab! I get a hilarious amount of work done with him for 1 point.
Sentry stones: They eat infantry, they kill lights, they threaten back-line models, they jam, they contest, they do almost everything you need them to every game. Just plain amazing.
List Summary: Overall the list has a very deep toolbox at its disposal. It can really mulch infantry, control heavies, threaten crazy assassination vectors, and can really crush at the scenario game. Kruger 2 is an incredible caster and he really defines the army with what it can do. I feel this list can handle a lot of different match ups and is something that really forces your opponent to think at the list picking stage of an event.
Match ups to play this into: 1: infantry of all kinds *except high arm heavy infantry, this can bog you down and cause issues very list dependant* 2: Combined arms lists 3: Mid ranged Gunlines 4: anything with lots of lightning shooting 5: Slow medium armored heavy bricks (you can pick them apart and use the feat to cheat a rounds of trades)
March ups to avoid: 1: Magic immune armies 2: Arm 20+ heavy bricks 3: High arm, High box, medium based infantry or cavalry armies 4: Una2
To clarify here, Una 2 is just going to wreck you. Her feat counteracts yours, he birds are mostly stealth and are hard to get to, and you lack the volume of attacks necessary to stay up on attrition. When an 8 point light can easily kill your wardens, its going to be a rough fight. If you somehow end up having to face her, go for the assassination, its your only real shot.
List tips: 1: clock management: its easy to think too much with this list as you have lots of options. Practice and make sure to memorize your cards as best as possible. Time can be an issue 2: Positioning: This is really key. Plan out your turns, have a 2-3 turn game plan. Pre-measuring is your friend, always pre-measure and think about your choices. Be aware of yours and your opponents threat ranges and don't be afraid to ask questions 3: Never move an opponents models: Kruger moves models involuntarily...a-lot. Always pre-measure this and let your opponent move their own stuff unless they give you permission to go for it. Nothings worse than having to argue about model positioning because you moved your opponents mini and centimeter too far. 4: Play to scenario: Force the issue, don't be afraid to go second. In fact I strongly recommend going second with this list. Krueger controls the flow of the game up until after his feat. Use this to your advantage and pressure your opponent by being up by 2 or 3 points. 5: Play patiently, and don't overextended: Be very patient with this list. You are all about manipulating opponents models, chipping away with your guns, and playing a patient game of attrition and scenario. Your army is fragile, be aware of that and play accordingly. Make sure your opponent is going to be reasonably crippled after you commit so they cannot retaliate well enough to push back attrition.
Changes I would make: Honestly, all I really want is 2 gallows groves. The arc nodes mean I can keep Kruger a little more safe and have a little more projection with his spells. That's about it.
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