|
Post by macdaddy on Dec 5, 2017 16:37:42 GMT
Looking back on this game I learned a lot, even if my loss was kind of a big fluke of dice. (yeah star crossed but all I need was 1 more sword attack to hit and I win.) I think I played the game fairly clean, with only a few positioning mistakes. As well as a very vital mistake at the end of the game where I upkept solid ground. I am not sure why I did. But It must have been in thought process of playing for another turn.
Mistakes: More positioning and fury management 1: I should not have put the stalker in trample range of the wrastler. That was too risky and cost me a very big attrition lead. 2: I should have not upkept solid ground on the final turn this enables me to put primal on the pureblood and probably wins me the game. 3: Baldur should have put primal on the stalker on turn 4. The extra fury on the gorax also cost me the game.
List thoughts:This game showed a lot of the strengths and weaknesses of the list. Ill list them numerically below. -Strengths: 1: The list hits light a freight train. A stalker with Stone skin, primal and strength, can and will kill a colossal. 2: I learned the list has way better mat fixing than I thought. Primal and undergrowth were MVP's this game (yea primal was an MVP who would have thought) 3: I can cheat trades with my feat in the early game. The attrition lead is so important in a list with 4 really squishy expensive heavies. I think I have to work really hard to cheat those trades, but With proper planing I can destroy an all heavy army with attrition. -Weaknesses: 1: Very little scenario pressure or relevance. Its really hard to contest. The LotF would help with that if he did not die to whatever looked at him funny. 2: LotF continues to feel like dead-weight. I would rather have a grymlin swarm in almost every situation. 3: The list has stagnant threat ranges and is overly reliant on hunters mark. I think this is an overall flaw in the theme design. My opponent had way better threat ranges than me with boosted hunters mark and extra distance for charging living things. 4: Fury management is awful. I can really only run 1 heavy full a turn or I start taking frenzy checks and that is a really big problem. 5: Primal continues to be a necessary evil and I hate it so much. If I could trade like a normal faction and not lose a heavy every other round I would have stomped y opponent this game. Imagine if the stalker and feral had gotten activation the turn after killing a heavy. I needed it way too much this game as a mat fixer and that is a inherent problem in faction IMO. 6: The list really lacks staying power after baldur blows his feat and the lines clash. Warpwolves are super squishy in the current meta and I am going to struggle into lists that can navigate my feat or can also cheat trades/out-threaten me. 7: Control 12" means I have to brick up and that has caused order of activation issues multiple times for me.
Overall I have a lot of fun with the list. But warp-wolves are flowing with flaws. As is the Call of the wild theme. You almost are required to take scarsfells to have a scenario presence and i really dislike that. I obviously need more practice but so far I am not too impressed.
|
|
daveg
Light Addition
Posts: 67
|
Post by daveg on Dec 5, 2017 17:08:51 GMT
Have you tried including minions in your CotW list? I'm running a different caster but I've been enjoying having pigs in my list as infantry. Helps balance the list for scenario I've found.
|
|
|
Post by macdaddy on Dec 5, 2017 17:27:29 GMT
Have you tried including minions in your CotW list? I'm running a different caster but I've been enjoying having pigs in my list as infantry. Helps balance the list for scenario I've found. The internets made this list for me My challenge is to play it as is at my next tournament If I could I would probably just add a grymlin swarm fro contesting. Also, replace the feral with some Scarsfell Gryphons.
|
|
|
Post by macdaddy on Dec 6, 2017 2:24:41 GMT
Another battle report coming soon. This time into Borka 1 in Storm of the north with a bunch of shiny new northkin models!
It’s another educational battle report about the strengths and weaknesses of the Baldur 1 List!
Hope you all are enjoying them!
|
|
|
Post by macdaddy on Dec 6, 2017 17:32:44 GMT
Ok everyone I here is the promised report. Its Baldur 1 versus Borka 1 and boy is it a rumble! My List: Baldur 1: CotW -Wilder -Feral -Megalith -2 Stalkers -Pureblood -Gorax shifting stones Lord of the Feast 2 Wayfarers My opponents List: Borka 1: SotN -Keggy -Rok -Mauler Max Champs -Skaldi Max Raiders Max Stone -Northkin Elder 2 Battle Bears Valka Curseborn Fell Caller Troll Champ Hero Deployment and Scenario:
We played the pit 2. Had some interesting terrain, no major central LoS blocking piece like the past few games but it was still in a legal place as per the scenario packet. I win the roll off and choose to go first, my opponent plops me on the side with the obstruction so his army is not restricted by it. His bears go into ambush and I cry a little bit inside. Turn 1: Circle:
I run everything as far as it will go. Baldur walks up, puts Stone skin on the feral this time (because I want him to feel like part of the gang) puts up solid ground, and puts up wild growth to block Los to the stalker and my squishier solos from the raiders that can walk and chuck bombs. Trolls:
My opponent does something very interesting here, He shifts his army to change the line of engagement. He is starting to push my lines to fight towards my right flank rather than head on. He does this partially to avoid feeding too many raiders to my stalkers, and partially to literally back me into his ambushing bears. IMO a fairly well thought out and subtle move on my opponents part. Its just a slight change, but you can start to see the shift happen based on his raiders, and the volume of his army pushed more towards my right flank. Most everything runs. The 2 far right raiders throw bombs at my wayfarer to no effect, Keggy tops off borka and Borka, fills the stone to full. The stone pops aura and awakens, piggybacking +1 Speed from the elder. *To be continued* IMG_3494.jpg (156.12 KB) IMG_3495.jpg (167.31 KB) IMG_3496.JPG (166.26 KB)
|
|
|
Post by macdaddy on Dec 6, 2017 17:33:00 GMT
Turn 2:Circle:I drop everything except for solid ground which I upkeep for free! My white stalker charges a raider, warps berserk and ends in melee with another raider as well. My charging claw misses, but the sword hits, triggering a tough check which my opponent passes. I then buy and attack, auto kill, and my berserk attack kills the other raider. I sprint for free and run away like a pansy. My pureblood moves up warping ghostly, sprays targeting a champion and catches 2 raiders, I Boost both hit rolls but only hit once and kill the raider that was hit. My other stalker derps a bit toeing the rectangular zone. warping prowl even though it is irrelevant. My feral waddles into the round zone some more and warps protective plates. Megalith waddles up, shoots and earth spikes but it does nothing. The shaper removes a fury from megalith. My wilder removes a fury from the pureblood. My 2 wayfarers back off a bit. My Lord of the feast backs away from the ambush bear threat and the charging Raiders threat. I don't want to sacrifice him meaninglessly and 1 passed tough check means he is wasted...*sigh*. Baldur activates and I make a hard decision here that I think was a mistake. In order to not auto lose on scenario I have to contest the zones. Even just barely toeing the zones my opponent can put at least 2 champions on the pureblood and the stalker if the stone pops +1 speed and borka feats. Not only that, but the mauler could also get pathfinder from the objective and trample up to the stalker with rage and or primal, he tramples for free and with primal would mat 8 P+S 18 with 5 potential bought attacks. At Mat 9 P+S 2 champions will do an average of 18-28 damage depending on spikes and such. That's pretty dicey odds at losing to heavies for nothing. I really wanted to try and save my feat for the battle bears after the turn they arrive, but I am going to have to blow it now to avoid getting jammed and potentially losing 1-3 heavies. Baldur decides to put down a wild growth, feats, and puts Stone Skin on the far stalker. My gorax runs to face the direction I think the bears are coming. Trolls:
Bears come in on my left flank behind my lines. A single unit can potentially one round any of my warpwolves which is an issue. They run to be within threat range of the stalker but out of his walking threat and in his back arc. The rest of his army runs with the gobber chef toeing the left square zone. Borka gets topped off and puts arcane ward on the champs and discards a couple fury. The stone Pops +1 speed and runs. Score: Trolls: 1 Circle: 0Turn 3: Circle:
I have to do as much work this turn as possible. My game plan is to kill the objective, kill 3 champions, and start working on playing the inevitable grind. Bladur upkeeps, stone skin, Solid ground, and drops rapid growth. My white stalker warps berserk, kills 1 raider, and misses a bunch of attacks, thanks to 2 passed tough checks (1 from each raider) I end up forcing to full, only killing one raider, and having to sprint back...darn that keg riding miscreant! Luckily I killed the raider that was most in the way. My pureblood warps ghostly, shoots valka because counter charge is bad and leaves him on a few boxes. (Arm 19 8 boxes is Legit!) My pureblood then puts wraithbane on the feral. Megalith,boost and earth spikes at valka and manages to kill him with a spiked damage roll (dice -6 valka had 5 health left) killing him after a failed tough check. (for fun we rolled out to see if valka had gotten to counter charge my stalker and hilariously Mat 8 Pow 12 WM scalpel out my spirit...thank goodness for megalith!) My Gorax puts primal on the stalker and waddles back out of bear threat. The wayfarer casts hunters mark at the objective and hits. My wilder moves up for herding so the stalker does not charge out of my 12" control and takes a fury off the pureblood. The stalker goes in warps strength, ends in reach range of the mauler, kills the objective in one hit with his charging claw attack. Hits the mauler, Dice +2, does a bunch of damage, buys attack, hits, more damage, buys attack, hits, mauler left on like 4 boxes, buys attack needs 4...misses..buys attack, needs a 4....misses.....I cry a little bit and after wiping the tears away I sprint to engage things ( this was a mistake) My other wayfarer derps around because I cant target the champs with hunters mark. My shaper pulls a fury off of megs. My Lord of the feast, uses hit bird to shoot a raider, kills it, buys and attack into rok because retaliatory strike on the champ hero means Ill just die on my turn, and does a hilarious boxcars damage roll doing a mighty 5 damage to rok. My feral charges the champs getting in melee range of 3. He manages to miss a few attacks needing 7's and thanks to sanguine bond I only force 2 tough checks which he fails. Leaving 3 champs and skaldi very much alive. uh-oh. Baldur desperateley attempts to scalple out the fell caller but does no damage with earth spikes. He puts wild growth up to protect himself. Score: Trolls: 2 Circle: 1*To be continued* IMG_3497.jpg (163.67 KB) IMG_3498.jpg (156.8 KB) IMG_3499.JPG (164.84 KB)
|
|
|
Post by macdaddy on Dec 6, 2017 17:33:11 GMT
Trolls:*I forgot to take a picture sorry everyone!*Borka upkeeps arcane ward. Keggy tops him off. He puts rage on the mauler, walks over to rok and puts rage on him as well, puts a fury into the stone to top it off, heals the mauler for 1, Feats and camps 1. The stone activates walks, puts of +2 strength for warrior models and awaknes for a full 11" bubble. The fell caller puts war cry on the champs (mat 9 *shudders*) and he leaves the Lord of the feast on 1 box with 2 attacks at Pow 12 Weaponmaster thanks to the stone. (unable to charge because the LotF was out of Arc.) Rok tramples to the objective, kills the LotF, snacks him (oh sweet irony) and kills the objective with 2 bought attacks. The mauler leaves the stalker on about half health after a horrible display of missing a bunch of boosted 8's to hit....tha champs acicate. Skaldi and a champ on the feral, and 2 champs on the stalker, they murder both beasts without skaldi even swinging. Bears go in kill the wilder, the wayfarer and threaten my back lined more, roaring contentedly. My gorax ponders how they were able to hide out of sight in those trenches for so long. Champ heor runs to catch the champs in CMD for ret strike. The gobber chef plays solitaire all loneley like in the rectangular zone. The raiders mostly just run and jam. Score: Trolls: 4 Circle: 1Turn 4: Circle:Well this game went south really fast. I find out borka is in stone port threat range of the white stalker. I use a wayfarer to phase jump and block him in fro stumbling drunk. the pureblood warps ghostly, moves up behind 2 raiders and kills them. The shaper puts enrage on megs. Megs walks up, pops animus, boosts a 2 handed throw at skaldi, hits, throws him at a kriel bearer to further box borka in, hits...and kills them both....well it seemed like a cool plan in my head. With nothing left to do, Baldur puts primal and stone skin, on the pureblood, as well as primal on the gorax. My Stones port the stalker. Borka is in undergwoth range so he stumbles half distance while affected. My stalker hits with the claw first, borka stumbles away (would be out of melee but undergwoth saved me) I hit him with the sword and he stumbles towards me, its dice +1 and I boost damage but he takes the 10 damage like a champ. I buy a sword swing, Hit, cause 12 damage which he transfers. He stumbles still in my melee. I buy my last attack, needing a 6...and miss *wah wah waaaahhhhh* My gorax spitefully tries to kill 2 bears but only bearly (he he) forces a single tough check which the bear passes. Score: Trolls: 5 Circle: 1Trolls:My opponent could simply end the game and win on scenario but we choose to play it out. Rok frenzies. He uses the stone to pops aura. Has 2 raiders charge baldur for fun, the first hits with a hard 8, does 8 damage, and what do ya know, the barrel riding pig hits with a hard 8 and does 9 damage. Killing baldur outright...well. At least it was a funny way to die *cries into hands* I took this picture because I felt it was cinematic and appropriate considering...you know. IMG_3501.jpg (161.68 KB) IMG_3502.JPG (147.05 KB) IMG_3503.JPG (166.76 KB)
|
|
|
Post by macdaddy on Dec 6, 2017 19:46:16 GMT
Another loss with baldur...geeze, I really need more practice with him.
I chock this one up to a few big mistakes more than bad dice (though the dice did not help.)
Mistakes: 1: I really should have saved my feat. I could have used wild growth to deter champ charges but I was really concerned about him feating and removing 1-2 heavies before I even got a chance to retaliate. 2: The turn after My feat I should have sprinted the stalker, away from the champions. He probably frenzies and kills the mauler (who only had around 5 or so boxes left after healing) and then I can actually probably play attrition. 3: I forgot that megs animus also does -2 def this game during the assassination run. Lucking I missed on double ones with the last attack anyway *doh* 4: I should have committed more the the champs on turn 3. If I can just kill 1 or 2 more (with say..the pureblood) I could have potentially not lost my feral. 5: During the assassination run turn I should have put something in the right zone and camped 2 with baldur to draw out the game. If baldur does not die I have a decent shot at killing Borka I think. (depending on what the champions and mauler kill...)
List thoughts: I continue to find the same weaknesses present in the list. But there are also very meaningful strengths.
Weaknesses: (from this game) 1: No scenario presence or contesting power. Warpwolves die when charged by anything meaningful. Particularly high mat attacks. I really really need to figure out how to contest without just losing pieces in droves. 2: Baldur wants the list to brick up, but that makes me vulnerable to getting surrounded and limits my board control. 3: I am still hilariously out-threatened in this match up thanks to borkas feat and the stone. If my opponent AD's the bears instead of ambushing the threaten 12" on feat turn and hit at Pow 17/18/18 mat 8 each with the stone buff. (or threat 13" a Mat 8 Pow 15/16/16) That's a dead warpwolf for sure. My stalkers only threat 13" with hunters mark (negated by prowl) and are still Dice -3 with the sword warping strength when the bears are under the stone. (arm 21 with stone and unyielding) I need stone skin to reliably kill and sprint away and even that gets sketchy because with stone skin I only threaten 12" 4: Mat 6 is bad, relying on primal to reliably kill def 12+ heavies is worse...
Strengths: 1: With all the buff stacking the list can potentially hit like a freight train..when I don't miss attacks haha. 2: Still have a lot of control elements fro trading with baldurs feat and rapid growth. 3: This list seems very good into lists with lots of heavies (Khador here I come) 4: Mat 6 on opponents beasts normally means Ill have warpwolves survive if an opponent cannot charge for free or walk to them. Its list dependent but def 14 no knockdown is a thing.
Match up thoughts I think this match up was a bad choice for baldur. I cannot effectively deal with the number of hard hitting infantry on the table and Borka out threatens me by a large margin. I think Krueger would have been the much better choice. Having said that, I still think I could have won that game. I just think krueger had better tools to deal with the borka list. I think Baldur will play best into lots of heavies (as long as they don't ignore his feat...)
|
|
|
Post by Nahualli on Dec 7, 2017 17:32:47 GMT
Love the "Death by Barrel Roll" pic, so hilarious!
I miss playing against trolls, I still don't even know what to drop into them. I hope my Wurmwood Devourer's Host list can handle them. About the matchup, it seems both suffered from high defense issues. Thinking about the design purpose of this list, I think it exemplifies what the novice Circle players start finding out, when they first attempt for a wolves heavy battlegroup. It's going to be rough, but at least for me is very interesting to see, it would be helpful for them (and me haha).
|
|
|
Post by macdaddy on Dec 7, 2017 17:39:19 GMT
Love the "Death by Barrel Roll" pic, so hilarious! I miss playing against trolls, I still don't even know what to drop into them. I hope my Wurmwood Devourer's Host list can handle them. About the matchup, it seems both suffered from high defense issues. Thinking about the design purpose of this list, I think it exemplifies what the novice Circle players start finding out, when they first attempt for a wolves heavy battlegroup. It's going to be rough, but at least for me is very interesting to see, it would be helpful for them (and me haha). I can also save all these for if and when we ever get our wolves in CiD LOOK AT MY POOR MAT 6 STALKERS PAGANI! LOOK AT THEIR SAD LITTLE MUZZLES! I like that these reports are showing all the random internet conversation sometimes has merit. People have had the issues I am encountering with warpwolves since the start of mk3. One thing I really like is this list is showing me that baldur 1 may be better than people give him credit. As long as you can manage fury (bones or a small battlegroup) the dude does a lot to support the army and his feat is really powerful if your opponent cannot turn it off.
|
|
|
Post by Nahualli on Dec 7, 2017 18:46:57 GMT
He was my first caster and I was really happy with him, but due to having Legion as my weekly opponent, I just got destroyed everytime hahaha. Only once I was able to port assassinate him, I think on a low points game. After I came to this part of US, my first game was against Sloan and I felt the other side of the coin, winning for the first time on scenario .
|
|
daveg
Light Addition
Posts: 67
|
Post by daveg on Dec 7, 2017 22:13:23 GMT
I like that these reports are showing all the random internet conversation sometimes has merit. People have had the issues I am encountering with warpwolves since the start of mk3. One thing I really like is this list is showing me that baldur 1 may be better than people give him credit. As long as you can manage fury (bones or a small battlegroup) the dude does a lot to support the army and his feat is really powerful if your opponent cannot turn it off. Your list also has very little support for the wolves other than the caster in terms of protection (positioning). I've found exactly what you have, without infantry support warpwolves get whooped hard. I've had better luck getting value from them with a more mixed list. I know this list was dictated to you by the internet and it's weaknesses just had to be endured for the challenge. I'd agree that Baldur1 is a great caster and one that is fairly high skill cap. Control casters require you to know what you need to control. The change in eyeless sight/random rule being able to see through forests have really improved Rapid Growth as a control spell. I'd recommend trying him with Wolds or a mixed battle group if you want to keep messing with him. His free charge helps the army damage significantly (as you've experienced and argued for in other places with the Wayfarer) and actually being able to heal wolds is sometimes massive. The mixed battle group/ also lets him get more out of his armor spell and his defense boosting feat. Stealth buff to Baldy1 is the more terrain and half of the time having a forest in the middle of the board. It's an upgrade to his mobility, the efficacy of his damage spell (it ignores a lot of defensive terrain bonuses), and his control (extended forest wall). Thank you for the reports and the analysis afterwords! I appreciate the diagnosis of the play and model strength without going too far into CID musings. We can't control when/if CID happens. We can only control how we use what we have.
|
|
|
Post by macdaddy on Dec 7, 2017 23:18:09 GMT
All excellent points daveg ! I am really considering running him in Bones in ADR as my gunline drop I think there may actually be a reason for us to run ADR this season Baldur 1’s biggest weakness is his control area. It really limits how much of the board he can take over and a spread out scenario is really taxing on him.
|
|
|
Post by elshinare on Dec 8, 2017 1:34:04 GMT
Really liking your series here, making me think of buying into a bones list or trying Baldur1 in The Wild Hunt, just done know what models to start with (got that A.D.D. on games)
|
|
|
Post by macdaddy on Dec 8, 2017 15:39:37 GMT
Really liking your series here, making me think of buying into a bones list or trying Baldur1 in The Wild Hunt, just done know what models to start with (got that A.D.D. on games) Considering the current ADR choices I think Baldur 1 has some potential there I can verify he is actually pretty excellent as a gunline drop as long as you have sentry stones Thanks for reading!
|
|