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Post by darkshroud on Nov 13, 2017 12:01:35 GMT
maybe its a cryx problem, but it seems character jacks get shelved more than youd expect them to. i just wrote this in response to someones thread:
"i wish we had character jacks that were worth taking like a lot of hordes factions do, it seems. most of the time nightmare and death jack are shelved. i havent seen canker worm outside of my lists in literally forever. bathroom use to be a thing, then theme forces happened. erebus and malice dont make appearances. kinda frustrating."
they already get a cool bonus if you take them with their caster. but you cant even take them without their caster in theme forces. so it seems like there needs to be *more* incentive to take them.
am i the only one seeing this "trend"? like, is Nightmare really worth a whole 8 extra points? (it goes without saying, no. take 2 slayers)
do they put too much stuff on one platform and then make it cost too much to reflect all the cool stuff, but then its only on one jack that can be removed and you just lost 23 pts of dj? like, would you pay for 3 different slayers at 11-13 pts if one had necromancy (13 pts), one had snacking (11 pts), and the other had skulls of hate (12 pts)?
but then youre losing out on an ability! ok, but you probably dont need all that stuff at one point. maybe youre facing ghost fleet and you want snacking and extra attacks, so you take the last 2. or maybe you just want necromancy, so you just take the first.
(shrugs)
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Post by tiberius on Nov 13, 2017 12:10:39 GMT
Maybe its me, but I always take character jacks, well not always, but they are not shelved any more than any other jack I own...except helldivers. I don't use helldivers anymore. But all of my character jacks with the exception of Malice see regular play. And I think a reaper is just straight up better than malice for the cost.
Cankerworm is just too good not to use with asphyxious. I love Erebus. Barathrum is great. I really like Deathjack and it almost always pulls its weight. Nightmare is a mixed bag, if it still had reach, I would say he was worth his 18 pts.
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Post by supersoldier86 on Nov 13, 2017 12:28:07 GMT
I'll probably use Rocinante when i start using damiano.
I do think casters should get a character Jack each though
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regleant
Junior Strategist
Sometimes things go right
Posts: 267
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Post by regleant on Nov 13, 2017 12:41:19 GMT
I would agree. There are plenty of times in Protectorate that I want to use Blood of Martyrs or Fire of Salvation, or even Avatar (really!) but simply can't...
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Post by darkshroud on Nov 13, 2017 13:02:23 GMT
Maybe its me, but I always take character jacks, well not always, but they are not shelved any more than any other jack I own...except helldivers. I don't use helldivers anymore. But all of my character jacks with the exception of Malice see regular play. And I think a reaper is just straight up better than malice for the cost.
Cankerworm is just too good not to use with asphyxious. I love Erebus. Barathrum is great. I really like Deathjack and it almost always pulls its weight. Nightmare is a mixed bag, if it still had reach, I would say he was worth his 18 pts. agree with reaper. absolutely always take canker worm with gaspy.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Nov 13, 2017 13:03:45 GMT
"Supposedly" every character beast/jack is going to get a theme they can play in outside of their casters.
That being said I really only stick to CotD so I always have the same characters in my lists. Typhon and Proteus rarely ever get out of the bag.
In Protectorate I'm running BoM with Thyra and Avatar in the FM theme. I don't really own anything else yet.
For Khador I only take Drago with Vlad. I used to take Ruin out of theme with Zerkova.
Cryx I love bathroom and Malice. But again, that means out of theme and now, that's just insanity.
My wife runs Ghetorix and Loki out of theme before the new beast theme. But now, kinda dumb to do so.
So blatantly, Themes killed characters. You take the character allowed in your theme and that's it.
Side note - I would not say any of the Cryx character jacks are bad. They are pretty flipping disgusting. I think Erebus is the bottom of the list and he still bring a guaranteed stationary on his attacks. That's pretty fantastic.
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Post by darkshroud on Nov 13, 2017 13:22:19 GMT
So blatantly, Themes killed characters. You take the character allowed in your theme and that's it. and no one plays out of theme. sadly.
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bward
Junior Strategist
Posts: 184
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Post by bward on Nov 13, 2017 13:58:47 GMT
PP’s exclusion of Character Jack/Beasts from Themes in their single biggest failure in this MK3.5 Theme world. They are starting to get better with it, doing things like adding Kharybabababadis into Slaughter Fleet, and Golab into Primal Terrors, Tibs is in MoW, etc... but it still isn’t enough. Especially for Ret who has none available in any theme.
Every character needs have a home in 1 theme before I feel like the Theme release is complete.
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Post by darkshroud on Nov 13, 2017 14:25:21 GMT
PP’s exclusion of Character Jack/Beasts from Themes in their single biggest failure in this MK3.5 Theme world. They are starting to get better with it, doing things like adding Kharybabababadis into Slaughter Fleet, and Golab into Primal Terrors, Tibs is in MoW, etc... but it still isn’t enough. Especially for Ret who has none available in any theme. Every character needs have a home in 1 theme before I feel like the Theme release is complete. Do they go the route of battle engines and let everyone include the old non-bonded warjacks be in any theme? then, go through and maybe let nightmare go with infernal machine..ect and pick themes to include one or 2 character jacks?
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bward
Junior Strategist
Posts: 184
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Post by bward on Nov 13, 2017 14:30:29 GMT
PP’s exclusion of Character Jack/Beasts from Themes in their single biggest failure in this MK3.5 Theme world. They are starting to get better with it, doing things like adding Kharybabababadis into Slaughter Fleet, and Golab into Primal Terrors, Tibs is in MoW, etc... but it still isn’t enough. Especially for Ret who has none available in any theme. Every character needs have a home in 1 theme before I feel like the Theme release is complete. Do they go the route of battle engines and let everyone include the old non-bonded warjacks be in any theme? then, go through and maybe let nightmare go with infernal machine..ect and pick themes to include one or 2 character jacks? Unfortunately I don’t think that they think its a problem, so I’ve quit holding my breath for some fix.
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Post by darkshroud on Nov 13, 2017 14:46:47 GMT
Do they go the route of battle engines and let everyone include the old non-bonded warjacks be in any theme? then, go through and maybe let nightmare go with infernal machine..ect and pick themes to include one or 2 character jacks? Unfortunately I don’t think that they think its a problem, so I’ve quit holding my breath for some fix. Oh absolutely. we wont see a fix. maybe next con im at i can bug someone.
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Post by streetpizza on Nov 13, 2017 19:22:44 GMT
Well Circle's single best beast currently doesn't have a home, Loki. I would personnally love to see him included in the wild hunt as he would give those lists some real teeth that they're currently lacking. Brenno's inclusion in the wild hunt instead of in secret masters is also just mind boggling.
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Post by killroundears on Nov 13, 2017 20:01:18 GMT
Themes have killed hordes character beasts too. Honestly i'd run Molik in most skorne lists, his stats are good, his damage output is great. I'd probably run Chiron fairly often too. Instead Molik sees play with mak1/2 and anyone whos derping around with 3, and chiron sees play precisely... never
I'd like if PP ever included character beasts in more theme forces by default, since they're already losing their bond bonus with other casters. For example, Molik is quite signficantly different when he cant side step twice its a really significant ability to lose.
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Post by macdaddy on Nov 13, 2017 20:36:15 GMT
Well Circle's single best beast currently doesn't have a home, Loki. I would personnally love to see him included in the wild hunt as he would give those lists some real teeth that they're currently lacking. Brenno's inclusion in the wild hunt instead of in secret masters is also just mind boggling. Oh yes please...loki in wild hunt would be so amazing... I feel like brenos was included in call because we ghetorix already has a theme and Loki does not seem right there. If we get another character heavy I think they will go there.
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Post by gedditoffme on Nov 13, 2017 20:57:45 GMT
I think they need to throw the characters a few more bones. I play mercs and have both Gallant & Rocinante, since they used to work well with Magnus2 and Ashlynn (in Mk2) respectively. Don't actually have Damiano or Constance Blaize so can't use either in any theme (and they are one of the few exclusions from Irregulars).
I've used Nightmare in cryx a few times this edition as Denny1's warjack in Infernal Machines. Between prey, ghostly and stealth I feel it added enough, especially when most of the rest of the list had stealth. Again though, I mainly bought him to play with Skarre2 in Mk2.
So would be good if there were options to use bonded characters with other warcasters.
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