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Post by killroundears on Nov 12, 2017 4:55:36 GMT
As a skorne player who has an extremely competitive meta I'll help you all out on how to kill Skorne. 1. skorne hates terrain. only the crazy cat lady list can deal with it effectively. 2. bugs have carapace and generally are under krea aura. This gives them 6 additional armor against ranged... subsequently, it also revokes 6 armor when you engage them in melee. They also are at 3 speed... 3. Tibs (tiberian) is being boosted by the krea aura and having you guys under the agonizer's debuff. Without the buffs, he's basically an easily hit warpwolf without his warp functions x.x 4. If you kill skorne's support, they become cake. Circle has a LOT of fast moving units with half decent mat and rat. Sacrifice something in order to go around back and kill the pathetic basilisk krea, agonizer, and beast tamers. The only list you guys should ever have to worry about when going after skorne is the crazy cat lady list (makeda2 double cavalry) Skornes greatest prowess is during their alpha turn. However, you're a failure of a circle player if you can't deny skorne their alpha. our beasts average speed is 4. With circle it's speed 6. We only have 1 caster who can even that playing field and they only have 5 focus and a huge sized base x.x Happy hunting ^-^ 1. This is completely untrue. Skorne has many answers to terrain, from free tyrant commanders in MoW to units with relentless charge to flight to spells on our casters. Skorne is extremely adept at dealing with terrain 2. Yes, kill bugs in melee. They're nearly impossible to shoot without some serious damage fixing or affliction to give you auto points. 3. Tiberion is bad and overcosted, and if they're bringing a krea AND aggy they're either going absolutely crazy with support bloat or they're in warhost where the krea and aggy are free. So generally be happy if tibs is on the table 4. Not really no, enrage is not mandatory vs circle orboros due to low arm stats. Only if its like.. the Wolds does enrage matter but wolds cant "sacrifice to get behind skornes lines". In general if they have both a krea and an aggy they're doing something wrong though unless its warhost. Such bloat. What circle has to worry about from skorne is quite a lot of lists... Take Dominar Rasheth for example, hes packing a cryx style debuff feat on top of denying channelling and animus use inside his considerable control area. Many circle beasts that rely on their higher defense rather than higher armor are also absolutely horrified by the sight of a derp turtle with its cavalry charge knockdown mace followed by pumping POW15s into them. Skorne's "Average speed" may be 4, but we're a faction with many speed buffs including one that can be taken in any list in any theme in the Gladiator's Rush. Skorne is one of the top 4 factions and they play like it.
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Post by jisidro on Nov 12, 2017 12:45:55 GMT
I have yet to play skorne without being out threatened... I either have a feat to deal with it or the SPD4 titans massively out threat me and of kill with impunity what they manage to reach... As to their support... It tends to be 5" behind the beasts so if a beast charges 10",aka spd 4 + the animus, then they are in reach but it's trading something that can threat that far for a couple of Paingivers... Not so good probably and since we don't have repo on shooting stuff because reasons we lack the ability to mitigate the retaliation by spreading out...
TL, DR: either have a feat to switch alfas ou enough beef to retaliate. Skorne with troops is OK, skorne with hearts is a nightmare.
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Post by beastofwar on Nov 14, 2017 14:07:34 GMT
So my choices are... stop playing with my friends and travel further to see if I can win, or spend £178 on new casters/ beasts/troops or have a nearly fully proxied army.
Wow things are rough for me lol.
I've gotta take a few days off this and try and make a decision. Am half tempted to just start a new army maybe grimkin.
I'm sad about this as I have spent many years collecting and painting circle.i carefully chose my army. I feel half of what I own is useless.
I spoke to a minion player who told me I was looking at my army wrong. I just don't see any winning combos for me to beat my friends atm.
Much soul searching must be done I think.
Unfortunately I don't have one so I'll have to borrow my mates lol.
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Post by Fudly on Nov 14, 2017 14:45:02 GMT
What lists do your friends run?
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Post by macdaddy on Nov 14, 2017 15:00:03 GMT
So my choices are... stop playing with my friends and travel further to see if I can win, or spend £178 on new casters/ beasts/troops or have a nearly fully proxied army. Wow things are rough for me lol. I've gotta take a few days off this and try and make a decision. Am half tempted to just start a new army maybe grimkin. I'm sad about this as I have spent many years collecting and painting circle.i carefully chose my army. I feel half of what I own is useless. I spoke to a minion player who told me I was looking at my army wrong. I just don't see any winning combos for me to beat my friends atm. Much soul searching must be done I think. Unfortunately I don't have one so I'll have to borrow my mates lol. Ok so no you don't have to drop 100+ moneys. Honestly if you really want to crack arm just buy kaya 3 and you are done. (based off your collection) proxying couple solos or a beast is not an issue at all. In my meta it happens all the time and at local events most people wont even complain. Right now I think the best thing for you to do is sit back, relax and remember this is a hobby. Whats important is you having fun more than anything. It would really help us a lot to know more about your meta though. I really think picking up kaya 3 would help you but if your meta is not just all skorne and trolls that may be a wasted effort.
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Post by streetpizza on Nov 14, 2017 19:15:42 GMT
The only list you guys should ever have to worry about when going after skorne is the crazy cat lady list (makeda2 double cavalry) Skornes greatest prowess is during their alpha turn. However, you're a failure of a circle player if you can't deny skorne their alpha. our beasts average speed is 4. With circle it's speed 6. We only have 1 caster who can even that playing field and they only have 5 focus and a huge sized base x.x Happy hunting ^-^ Circle is one of the factions that has to worry the least about KitCats. We bring a model that shuts the entirety of what that list does down hard for 2pts or an 8pt infantry unit that can also crap pretty hard on its primary mechanic (Gallows Groves and Bloodweavers, Night Witch helps too) Circles problem is, and always has been since MKII, accurate armor skew lists which Skorne does very well. beastofwar . I too was down on this faction since MKIII. That is however changing with the advent of our surprise CID cycle for wolds. With the addition of those changes to war room we now have the tools to run very good armor lists coupled with a high def or infantry spam second list forcing hard choices from opponents. Circle's stock just went way way up and its a really good time to be druid. The unfortunate thing for you is that your collection is a victim of theme machine. This happened to every faction, not just circle by the way. Presently you're a mile wide with a little bit of everything but only an inch deep into every theme except call of the wild. To be successful in MKIII you need to pick two themes and buy into them. At present the best choices are Bones, Call or Devourer's. I tried to build each one in conflict chamber using your collection and a decent bones or devourer's list seems pretty far out of reach. You will need to proxy some models to find out where you want to go with your collection but in the end ... yes you will need to make few purchases or resign yourself to just playing with the living beasts. Here is one sample list for you from your collection though that I think has serious teeth and utility. Its not optimized due to your limited collection but it will hold its own. You will however need one proxy for Loki but he's currently an awesome beast and well worth the purchase if this works for you. conflictchamber.com/#c8201b_-0pg1gZ4QjGjFjE4Hg4g45gc9c95e5dCircle Army - 74 / 75 points [Theme] The Bones of Orboros (Tanith 1) Tanith the Feral Song [+31] - Loki [19] - Megalith [20] - Wold Guardian [16] - Woldwarden [14] - Woldwatcher [8] - Woldwyrd [9] Blackclad Stoneshaper [0(3)] Blackclad Stoneshaper [0(3)] Blackclad Wayfarer [0(4)] Gallows Grove [2] Gallows Grove [2] Sentry Stone & Mannikins [5] Stoneward & Woldstalkers [10]
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Post by elshinare on Nov 14, 2017 19:27:31 GMT
so, since themes can now take 1 minion unit and solo, has anyone tried improving lists by proxying? I would be better than buying whole new armies I would suspect.
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Post by streetpizza on Nov 14, 2017 19:30:49 GMT
He doesn't have to build whole new armies he just needs a couple beasts for bones or a couple units for devourers'. He's fine on casters but the solo's could use some additions as well. All in all the 178 euro estimate wasn't that far off in my opinion.
In a shopping list here I'd be looking for: - 2nd warden - 2nd wyrd - 2nd wayfarer - 3rd stoneshaper - Fulcrum - 2nd sentry stone
Then he'd have everthing required to do both bones and call effectively.
Alternatively ... yes ... he could slot the minion battle engine into a few lists to fill in the gap but I'm not sure how far that will take him or if it would solve any of the issues being encountered here.
MKII allowed the shotgun collecting approach but MKIII demands a bit more focus in purchases.
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boozy
Junior Strategist
Posts: 429
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Post by boozy on Nov 14, 2017 20:31:11 GMT
[quote This is completely untrue. Skorne has many answers to terrain, from free tyrant commanders in MoW to units with relentless charge to flight to spells on our casters. Skorne is extremely adept at dealing with terrain
2. Yes, kill bugs in melee. They're nearly impossible to shoot without some serious damage fixing or affliction to give you auto points.
3. Tiberion is bad and overcosted, and if they're bringing a krea AND aggy they're either going absolutely crazy with support bloat or they're in warhost where the krea and aggy are free. So generally be happy if tibs is on the table
4. Not really no, enrage is not mandatory vs circle orboros due to low arm stats. Only if its like.. the Wolds does enrage matter but wolds cant "sacrifice to get behind skornes lines". In general if they have both a krea and an aggy they're doing something wrong though unless its warhost. Such bloat.
What circle has to worry about from skorne is quite a lot of lists... Take Dominar Rasheth for example, hes packing a cryx style debuff feat on top of denying channelling and animus use inside his considerable control area. Many circle beasts that rely on their higher defense rather than higher armor are also absolutely horrified by the sight of a derp turtle with its cavalry charge knockdown mace followed by pumping POW15s into them.
Skorne's "Average speed" may be 4, but we're a faction with many speed buffs including one that can be taken in any list in any theme in the Gladiator's Rush.
Skorne is one of the top 4 factions and they play like it. [/quote]
Lol. You exposed our mole.
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Post by killroundears on Nov 14, 2017 23:39:02 GMT
So my choices are... stop playing with my friends and travel further to see if I can win, or spend £178 on new casters/ beasts/troops or have a nearly fully proxied army. Wow things are rough for me lol. I've gotta take a few days off this and try and make a decision. Am half tempted to just start a new army maybe grimkin. I'm sad about this as I have spent many years collecting and painting circle.i carefully chose my army. I feel half of what I own is useless. I spoke to a minion player who told me I was looking at my army wrong. I just don't see any winning combos for me to beat my friends atm. Much soul searching must be done I think. Unfortunately I don't have one so I'll have to borrow my mates lol. I think a real winning combo for you is K2 in bones. I have generally been more afraid of this list than most things circle can drop. Two wardens + K2 is a spell slinging dream team. As an anecdote the circle player in my meta was up against Kaelyssa and 2 hail hydras. he deliberately left a sentry stone inside the hail hydras range so kae phantom huntered them and they both shot it, taking the bait. he then trampled his warden and casted gallows on one of the hydras and pulled it in, the other one pulled it even further in and kreuger TK'd it around and his Woldwrath punched it to death. These kind of sneaky angles are everywhere Theres a lot of interlocking synergistic pieces in that list like woldwyrds who will mulch anything with an upkeep on them, or any light infantry otherwise. Sentry stones for mannikin spray shenanigans. Wardens, the wrath etc. I've seen it out attrition quite a lot of lists and when it fails to do that its a scenario beast, and even more so when you consider even the woldwardens can TK things around. Krueger also has a pretty big middle finger to middling range guns like rng10s. I saw him play vs hollowmen grymkin about a week ago and the circle player felt pretty bad because them and longfellow couldn't threat anything... boozy heh
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Post by beastofwar on Nov 15, 2017 8:41:29 GMT
I didn't think gargantuan could be placed.
I understand how we can kill light infantry. I really struggle with armour. Skorne medium infantry and skorne heavy warbeasts. Struggle with Jack spam from cryx. Pretty much any troll list.
I understand that if I take out the support pieces these armies fail but getting to them is the issue. So I tend to have to pick at the front line which our gun lines can't roll high enough. Even used the woldwyrd and woldwatcher for some boosted damage but needing to roll on -11. So my choices are then commuting a 20 point War Beast to kill 2 or 3 troops to open the way to the support pieces. That 20 point beast will die.
Using the old methods of teleporting something is pointless as we don't have trouble hitting just damaging.
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Post by goodjazz on Nov 15, 2017 15:14:28 GMT
So my choices are... stop playing with my friends and travel further to see if I can win, or spend £178 on new casters/ beasts/troops or have a nearly fully proxied army. Wow things are rough for me lol. I've gotta take a few days off this and try and make a decision. Am half tempted to just start a new army maybe grimkin. I'm sad about this as I have spent many years collecting and painting circle.i carefully chose my army. I feel half of what I own is useless. I spoke to a minion player who told me I was looking at my army wrong. I just don't see any winning combos for me to beat my friends atm. Much soul searching must be done I think. Unfortunately I don't have one so I'll have to borrow my mates lol. Somehow reading this kinda hurts. Here is my Kromac2 beast List: Circle Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Call of the Wild (Kromac 2) Kromac, Champion of the Wurm [+28] - Feral Warpwolf [18] - Feral Warpwolf [18] - Ghetorix [21] - Gnarlhorn Satyr [12] - Shadowhorn Satyr [12] - Warpwolf Stalker [19] - Druid Wilder [0(4)] Blackclad Wayfarer [0(4)] Blackclad Wayfarer [0(4)] Shifting Stones [0(3)] Shifting Stones [3] You could use your pureblood as a ferral and and stoneshaper as a wayfarer. You own everything else. Maybe you want to give it a shot. Edit: Actually you could play the pureblood as a pureblood which cuts of 1 free solo, thus you could only play 1 wayfarer and be at 74/75 points. I would recommend the proxying though.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Nov 15, 2017 16:45:35 GMT
3. Tibs (tiberian) is being boosted by the krea aura and having you guys under the agonizer's debuff. Without the buffs, he's basically an easily hit warpwolf without his warp functions x.x 3. Tiberion is bad and overcosted, and if they're bringing a krea AND aggy they're either going absolutely crazy with support bloat or they're in warhost where the krea and aggy are free. So generally be happy if tibs is on the table Quote from the Skorne FB page I saw go around - "Tiberion is overcosted, but at least he's not Typhon." On topic. Circle has baffled me. My wife plays the faction and I forever look at the model one by one and think "Man I wish I had something that good." But not matter how they are assembled in a list; when it hits the table it all falls short of expectations. It can't survive in any confrontation in an expected manner. It's frustrating beyond belief. I can't teach my wife how to make these absurd and usually unreasonable plays. I do it constantly with Legion so it's second nature to me. But I've even been told that I'm the only reason my lists work. How do you teach someone to play the game in an unreasonable manner? How do you teach them to give up scenario points that might nearly loose them the game to set up for a freak play that the opponent might not take the bait you set? How do you give up on the wall of warjacks to run right past them into the opponent's backfield when you know the jacks are going to eat your battle group alive? It's all. bonkers. It really is. There is nothing simple about Circle. Yes it can brick up with Baldur and wolds. Yes it can force some near guaranteed assassinations with Una2. But these are outliers. If I can't teach my wife for sure how top pull off my crazy schemes I doubt I can convince you. But all I can say is Gamble. Take the risks to bait your opponent. If things go as you expect, you draw out that key model of theirs. If they ignore it you have an aggressively placed model that should be able to capitalize on something bigger. Never look at the board and think "how do I get to him". Look at the situation and think "How can I make him come to me". Think about where you want to be and how you can make your opponent want to be somewhere else. It's really abstract, I know. But in the end, like has been mentioned, try to make things fun. Loosing to competitive style players is can just ruin the hobby. I also advise taking a break as well. Do what you need to in order to not wind up hating the faction/game.
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Post by beastofwar on Nov 15, 2017 17:15:15 GMT
Thanks for the support guys.
I think what I need is to watch a good circle player overcome the odds I see.
I struggle to understand lists people show me. I have run similar lists and flop. I see the synergies but still tends to rely on above average rolls. People must be using things differently to me.
It's no longer fun atm so will take a break but keep up to date with the game through friends.
Will keep posting and reading messages ect.
Thank you guys.
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Post by macdaddy on Nov 15, 2017 20:01:17 GMT
Thanks for the support guys. I think what I need is to watch a good circle player overcome the odds I see. I struggle to understand lists people show me. I have run similar lists and flop. I see the synergies but still tends to rely on above average rolls. People must be using things differently to me. It's no longer fun atm so will take a break but keep up to date with the game through friends. Will keep posting and reading messages ect. Thank you guys. not snakes gaming, arcane assist and advanced manuevers are all god chanels with good quality players to watch. The druids dice official thread (Now Line of sight blog) is also an excellent resource for circle played at A very high level LoS Jaden is one of the best circle players I have seen play games (going off is battle reports and tourney results) Ill post some links to the thread and his website: Druids dice thread: lormahordes.freeforums.net/thread/73/druids-dice-official-threadLOS wargaming blog: www.loswarmachine.com/druiddice/
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