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Post by macdaddy on Oct 28, 2017 14:08:44 GMT
Blargaliscious The issue is they are charging us again for old content we already purchased. I mean, me and rowdy and other people have already said this. We know other companies do it. I would never buy the Re-released game like cryptix talked about. I didn’t buy into the Re-released Skyrim because it was a stupid cash grab (imo) considering you could do the same stuff with mods for free... It is the principle of having to pay for our faction decks again, and the way that method of payment was implemented that makes us upset. I have said multiple times I would not be flustered if I had gotten my faction deck to view, but not been able to build a list or see command cards till I payed 10 bucks for the CoI Rules. It feels like they are milking the faction cards. I honestly think this thread has outlived its usefulness. We are arguing in circles at this point...
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wishing
Junior Strategist
Posts: 353
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Post by wishing on Oct 28, 2017 15:06:31 GMT
It sounds like what people are arguing about is whether the COI cards are new content or not. And the reason for the disagreement is that they sort of are, but not really, right?
The argument "they are charging us for the same content again" doesn't really make sense - because if it was 100% the same content, then there would be nothing to charge you for again, because you already have it. The only reason they can charge again is that there is something different about the new thing they are charging for. But that difference doesn't seem to be something some people think it is OK to charge for.
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bacon
Junior Strategist
Posts: 134
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Post by bacon on Oct 28, 2017 15:33:28 GMT
Blargaliscious The issue is they are charging us again for old content we already purchased. I mean, me and rowdy and other people have already said this. We know other companies do it. I would never buy the Re-released game like cryptix talked about. I didn’t buy into the Re-released Skyrim because it was a stupid cash grab (imo) considering you could do the same stuff with mods for free... It is the principle of having to pay for our faction decks again, and the way that method of payment was implemented that makes us upset. I have said multiple times I would not be flustered if I had gotten my faction deck to view, but not been able to build a list or see command cards till I payed 10 bucks for the CoI Rules. It feels like they are milking the faction cards. I honestly think this thread has outlived its usefulness. We are arguing in circles at this point... But they arent charging you again for something you already bought. You bought the warmachine/hordes deck that lets you view and play with cards for warmachine and hordes. Not having the CoI cards does not stop you from using war room to view and play with warmachine/hordes cards.You got and still have what you originally played for. It could only be as you described if they removed everyone's access to all cards for both games and said you must buy them again.
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 28, 2017 15:44:50 GMT
“Different product” change the wording on a couple models cards and suddenly it’s a new deck worth 3 bucks.
I’m goung to say this again. It’s the principle of the thing. Sure you can say it’s petty or stupid. But I just find it annoying that I have to pay 20 dollars for all the faction decks again. Also, we did not even know the CoI versions of faction cards would be free for sure till after everything was released Day 1. Mr original griping mostly came from that perspective.
I know all the core rules are free, but does anyone have the link to the free versions of the updated cards? Or are those still a Work in progress.
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Post by Cryptix on Oct 28, 2017 16:03:27 GMT
Use the rules referendum and replace things accordingly.
I bought the Cryx deck just because there's so much dogganm recursion and I'm not going to remember it.
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 28, 2017 17:03:20 GMT
Use the rules referendum and replace things accordingly. I bought the Cryx deck just because there's so much dogganm recursion and I'm not going to remember it. Just to clarify I Sentry stones and shifting stones are not allowed because they are immobile right?
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Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Lanz on Oct 28, 2017 18:25:31 GMT
Use the rules referendum and replace things accordingly. I bought the Cryx deck just because there's so much dogganm recursion and I'm not going to remember it. Just to clarify I Sentry stones and shifting stones are not allowed because they are immobile right? Even if you don't buy the decks, you can still see the list of available models in COI mode, they'll just mostly be locked off from reading the card.
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Post by Cryptix on Oct 28, 2017 19:39:14 GMT
Use the rules referendum and replace things accordingly. I bought the Cryx deck just because there's so much dogganm recursion and I'm not going to remember it. Just to clarify I Sentry stones and shifting stones are not allowed because they are immobile right? What he said, and yes they're disallowed.
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Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Lanz on Oct 28, 2017 20:56:24 GMT
Weirdly, the Spawning Vessel, however, IS allowed, even though Carried is basically the same rule plus some extra stuff.
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Post by josephkerr on Oct 28, 2017 21:50:36 GMT
Im honestly shocked PP doesnt charge war room users every time a new card comes out. They easily could, and its new content.
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Post by GumbaFish on Oct 28, 2017 21:56:28 GMT
I think this is the problem with trying to port one game system to another. Other games like Mordheim, Shadow War Armageddon, Shadespire, etc... might allow for some cross pollination in terms of the actual models used but the stats and rules for those models differed between them and their parent games (warhammer, 40k, AoS). If they had come up with completely different rules for models you already own for Warmachine I think people would be less upset about paying for new content but then they'd probably gripe about how it is confusing to have different rules for different systems. I think it makes more sense to have these spinoff type games actually be games in their own right and not try to patch together some rules for existing models in a different system.
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Post by Aegis on Oct 29, 2017 7:16:30 GMT
The problem is that CoI is intended to be used with the same cards of warmachine, with just some little adjustments to some rules as referenced on the manual.
If you are a phisical card user, you don't need to buy the cards again to use them in CoI, but if you are a Warroom user you do. That's quite stupid.
Also, part of the "advantage" of having Warroom is to have a card database always updated always handy (or at least that was the idea at the beginning, before the online card database was released), so, in a certain sense, both the release of the free online database and the fact that you can't use your WM/H decks in CoI is slowly reducing the value of the original purchase of the decks.
Noone would have complained if they charged just for what is really new, that is the possibility of using your cards in CoI mode. They are a business and it's totally right for them to charge for new stuff. The stupid part is charging for a thing people already payd for.
Also, CoI is intended to be a way to make people tip into new factions, so it bothers me to have to buy a whole faction deck, that I won't be able to use in WM/H if I decide then to expand that orignal purchase to a full WM/H list, every time I make a new CoI band.
They should have just charged 5-10 bucks for the CoI mode, but then leave you use the same decks you purchased for WM/H. That way, a deck purchase would have been useful for both games, exactly as the phisical cards are.
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Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Lanz on Oct 29, 2017 7:23:00 GMT
Personally, I'm still using War Room, but I'm just using regular mode to build 20-25 point lists. As far as I know, War Room still won't support drawing and using a hand of command cards, so you still need those in a physical medium (I wouldn't want to have to use a hand of cards digitally even if it WAS an option).
Warroom COI is just bad. Bad idea, bad implementation, bad communication.
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Post by sgregorbmmd on Oct 29, 2017 11:05:47 GMT
Personally, I'm still using War Room, but I'm just using regular mode to build 20-25 point lists. As far as I know, War Room still won't support drawing and using a hand of command cards, so you still need those in a physical medium (I wouldn't want to have to use a hand of cards digitally even if it WAS an option). Warroom COI is just bad. Bad idea, bad implementation, bad communication. I tried doing that but it was *really* hard to keep track of the four or five rules that changed and the fact that one of my models now has 5 extra hitboxes. Plus, PP found out I wasn't using the app right and sent the local Bratya over to break my phone and confiscate my painted and based Widower's Wood models for good measure. Just. Like. GW. Would. Have. Done.
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bacon
Junior Strategist
Posts: 134
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Post by bacon on Oct 29, 2017 14:58:50 GMT
Noone would have complained if they charged just for what is really new, that is the possibility of using your cards in CoI mode. They are a business and it's totally right for them to charge for new stuff. The stupid part is charging for a thing people already payd for. The full faction deck is $20 dollars, it could be easily argued that you are paying at least $3 and up to $20 for war room functionality depending on how much you want. Whether or not that is worth it depends entirely up to the consumer. I guess I don't understand what the problem is, the only thing I thought was poorly handled was not giving us any indication it would cost more until launch day.
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