|
Post by Trollock on Oct 19, 2017 7:58:13 GMT
So, CID changes are live, and the list gets 2 more points to play with as well as access to Mulg (and minions, though that was a few weeks back). I agonized over how to change the list, but i settled on NOT including Mulg. This is not because Mulg is not awesome (Ragnor has good use for an arc node, and Mulg is more Mulg than he has been for over a year) but because i could not get the points to work out for the other things that i wanted. I decided to drop the Runeshapers instead (good riddance!) and include Swamp Gobbers (to score), Lanyssa (to allow my things to threaten a really long way) and then i used the remaining points to upgrade an EBDT to a Bomber. conflictchamber.com/#c7201b_-0bfL0riRc60h04jq7d4k6R0l0m2NTrollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Power of Dhunia (Ragnor 1) Ragnor Skysplitter, The Runemaster [+30] - Dire Troll Bomber [19] - Earthborn Dire Troll [14] - Mountain King [36] - Troll Axer [10] - Winter Troll [8] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)] Janissa Stonetide [0(4)] Lanyssa Ryssyl, Nyss Sorceress [4] Troll Whelps [0(4)] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9] - Stone Scribe Elder [3] Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2] This changes the list quite a bit. The Bomber is not a fast throwaway heavy like the EBDT, but the addition of pathfinder to the winter Troll helps make up for the loss. I actually really like the new winter troll, especially with a defensive feat. The animus us super annoying to deal with on the feat turn. If they spend their turn trying to kill a winter troll under my feat, im all for that The list now sports some serious threat ranges. The EBDT can go threaten things 15" off, and the Bomber can threaten 19". Together they will murder a heavy easily with the standard Buffs applied, and the Bomber stays back in safety. Janissa can disengage the Bomber too if needed later on. The Bomber, plus Shock Wave is a credible assassination threat to warcasters, but probably not to warlocks, but add in sprays from the MK and Winter Troll and they need to camp a lot to be safe. The list can thus project threat way better than the old list could, and that can lead to the dream of getting an alpha and THEN feating. It is by no means guaranteed, but it is way more of a possibility. The list has a bit less staying power though. The Bomber is less sturdy than the EBDT it replaced, and the swamp gobbers are less sturdy than the Runeshapers (one can question by how much though... The list is also worse at contesting, so I will have to try and use threat projection to prevent scenario loss before i can win on attrition. The actual win condition is probably still scenario after killing all the stuff, but the possibility for assassination is way higher now. Two more games to go. Hopefully i get them done on monday, and then the REAL exploration can begin. Mulg is very interesting to me with Ragnor. It is very possible i drop the MK to get a bit more of leeway with points. More likely though is that i play another caster. There are just way too many new things for me to decide. Madrak 1 needs to see the table for sure. The old meat mountain could very well be the new answer to cryx, though probably with double champions and one unit of warders. I am very interested for sure!
|
|
skurkious
Junior Strategist
For Kith and Kriel!
Posts: 206
|
Post by skurkious on Oct 20, 2017 19:41:54 GMT
I really, really, REALLY want to like Runeshapers. They seem so close to being really good. I've found 90% of games they do absolutely nothing. The other 10% they were MVPs! Steady with tough can be the most amazing thing ever on a model with trembler. They kept living and knocking down whole units of guys and then the rest of my list would pick them off or do something else. I don't really know if they can be fixed other than maybe making them a point or two cheaper. Its like they don't necessarily fit in with our faction sometimes(which drives me nuts since they are the only models we have that do what they do).
|
|
skurkious
Junior Strategist
For Kith and Kriel!
Posts: 206
|
Post by skurkious on Oct 20, 2017 19:44:36 GMT
The only two casters I've ever been able to play for more than 3 games in a row(when not specifically training for a tournament) are Haley3 and Horgle2. I have such horrible list ADD that I rarely want to play the same list twice. Kind of want to take the challenge with either Grim2 or Madrak1 though. I definitely find in most games I am not maximizing the abilities of my army because I switch everything from Casters to units to style every game.
|
|
|
Post by macdaddy on Oct 20, 2017 20:36:07 GMT
I really, really, REALLY want to like Runeshapers. They seem so close to being really good. I've found 90% of games they do absolutely nothing. The other 10% they were MVPs! Steady with tough can be the most amazing thing ever on a model with trembler. They kept living and knocking down whole units of guys and then the rest of my list would pick them off or do something else. I don't really know if they can be fixed other than maybe making them a point or two cheaper. Its like they don't necessarily fit in with our faction sometimes(which drives me nuts since they are the only models we have that do what they do). If they had AD they would be a lot better. Having to run for 2 turns just to become relevant really hinders their effectiveness. They are also really expensive for what they do...
|
|
mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
|
Post by mazog on Oct 22, 2017 1:32:23 GMT
I just had four games with Madrak1 in BoH at a Longest Night event. I won the prize, which was exciting. I won two out of four games, but the last would have gone against me if my opponent hadn't gotten super-diced, although Even Ground made that happen.
Battlegroup is just to keep people honest, and the Axer serves double as Rush-bot and Charge of the Trolls trigger. Madrak1 -Runebearer -Axer -Bomber
Fell Caller Hero Stone Scribe Chronicler Horthol Long Rider
Max Champs + Skaldi + Sorceror Min Warders Max Fenns + UA Min Stone + Elder
The troop swarm did what I wanted, which is sandpaper Khador heavies and hold them off while I position the Champs to wreck them, or kill all the dudes. My biggest complaint is that Jackhammer feels wasted in this list at the moment. Well, that and the pain that comes when Madrak misses his boosted shot. That is an intended pain, though. I used the scheme I posted in the other thread about getting the second wave up faster, but it was only really useful in one out of three of the games that I tried it, as there was too much terrain or they didn't kill the bait fennblades in the other games.
Madrak1 is legit. Maybe even super legit.
|
|
petef
Read Page 5
Posts: 24
|
Post by petef on Oct 22, 2017 10:08:49 GMT
I've been looking to run a similar madrak1 list. Can I ask about Horthol? He's a model I've hardly used in MK3. How do you use him/what is his role in the list?
|
|
|
Post by Big Fat Troll on Oct 22, 2017 12:30:50 GMT
mazog When the Brawler comes out, you might see about trying him with Madrak 1. Even without Rage, PS 18 Jackhammers are often worthwhile. 2-inch melee makes both that and Charge of the Trolls better.
|
|
mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
|
Post by mazog on Oct 22, 2017 12:53:18 GMT
The Brawler sounds like a great idea! Horthol is there to be a fast flanking threat. I have adopted the approach of a friend of mine, which is to run him up the flank for two turns, and then he'll come in from behind, or they'll dedicate a lot of points (probably a jack or beast) to kill him, and it may well not one-round him anyways. The dream is he gets to slam something towards my lines, but the reality is usually that he ties stuff up. One time yesterday he got to engage Behemoth from behind, and big B walked away and took the free strike. So I charged him the next turn, too. That was a very satisfying game for him. In another he tied up a forge seer and a juggernaut (outside of my opponents control) for the whole game. That also seems like a good return on investment.
Mostly I play him because I want to get a feel for cavalry without dropping a load of cash on the unit. From the way things have been going, I am inclined to put them fairly high on my purchase priority list, but I think behind the hooch hauler.
Final thought, Madrak1 lets us play a dodgy faction, something we haven't been able to do since Mk2. I'm in love. I do miss Grissel2 knocking butcher3 down every turn, but not enough to ditch him yet.
|
|
|
Post by Trollock on Oct 24, 2017 7:09:54 GMT
Played two more games last night with... mixed results. I played both games against my Legion buddy. He was playing a list that focuses on mobility and being super annoying rather than tackling my beast brick head on. It is a list we have been talking about for a while, since he feels he has real issues with Trolls. Legion Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Ravens of War (Absylonia 1) Absylonia, Terror of Everblight [+31] - Angelius [17] - Archangel [37] Bog Trog Mist Speaker [4] Grotesque Assassin [0(4)] Strider Deathstalker [0(4)] Strider Deathstalker [4] Blighted Nyss Raptors (max) [18] Grotesque Raiders (max) [12] Hellmouth [6] Hellmouth [6] Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2] Both games were played on Breakdown (two circles on the sides with a rectangle in the middle). I didnt take notes, so ill just summarize. Game 1I get to go first. And set up to try and win the west zone while contesting the east with an EBDT near an obstruction. I feat on turn 2, and he feels that if he backs off, i will just win. Unfortunately, i have left Ragnor camping 0 and in charge range of his Arcangel... Ooops... He feels he has to go for it, but the odds are not super good. There is a whelp that he cant get rid off except by shooting it with his Angelius, and he wants to shoot Ragnor with that shot instead. In the end though he kills me with 2 attacks to spare. This is the first time i have gotten assassinated without first having gone all in with my caster in over 100 games. And i actually forgot about the Archangel. Despite it being the biggest model on the table by far, i just missed it, or rather forgot that he could use it to charge my caster who was like 11.5" away. I could easily have been further back. We discussed a bit what would happen if i did not give him the assassination. He felt he would lose a long game, while i felt he could just back off a bit and given me a scenario point. I couldnt really have scored more. We decide to actually play another game and see what happens. Game 2This time I get to go second. We switch sides on the table too. My setup is similar. He runs up and i do that too. I feat on turn 1 to be able to take some board space. My Bomber gets rushed and shoot up the AA quite a bit. Now a very different game ensues. He backs off a bit to not be eaten by my beasts. He sends his cav around the west flank and ambushes on the right flank. I too play passively now, and contest the east zone with an EBDT with ARM 22 and animus, and the west zone with the MK. I use my army to attack his flanking force. Bomber shoots some groutesques, kriel stone tries to attack two of them. Lanyssa chops up one cav dude, and my Winter Troll sprays over three others, but manages not crit none of them and only actually kill one. His Remaining flankers chip away at my kriel stone mainly, but i have been cagey with the cloud from the gobbers and terrain. His raptors fail to kill lanyssa, and his beasts stay back and shoot a bit. he focuses down my whelps rather than attacking the beasts so there will be frenzies. We continue on another round. I manage to deal with the flankers, but my EBDT frenzied on my Bomber and took out the spirit despite not getting a charge bonus. The bomber shot up the AA again and got it down to like 10 boxes. He feats to repair the angel and kills my Bomber easily. He cant score cause of a whelp spawning though. My EBDT with Rush can just barely reach the AA with a walk (he is turned around from the frenzy so he cant charge it. I roll great but do not quite kill the AA. Next turn his AA kills my EBDT (he got the stone down with the assassin, so i couldnt self sac it). He kills teh axer with his angel. The MK cant reach the AA but he can reach the angelius. he has forced evo up and has an obstruction so he will be effectively DEF 18 in melee. Ragnor gets brave and tries to hex blast off the forced evo (no cover from that angle) but misses. MK assaults and sticks the shot, making him only DEF 16 in melee. I hit the charge attack but miss the last attack. We are on round 6 now with enough clock left. I have scored 1. He can get the bloody angel to Ragnor AGAIN but i am camping 2 at least. He decides to go for it, and gets me to tough but i make it! Then my wife called with a baby-related emergency (the little guy refused to sleep lol) so i decided to pack up rather than playing it to the end. It is very possible that i kill both his remaining beasts using MK and Ragnor and then he only has his hellmouths left. I was contesting one circle with Lanyssa (hellmouth needs 9 to hit) and it all comes down to dice if he or i win on turn 7 by a point or two. I rushed home to find both baby and wife sleeping lol. Things i learnedDo not tank the AA to the face with your caster! Actually, im not quite sure i actually learned that lesson, but i really SHOULD learn it. Ragnor is significantly easier to kill in melee than most of our casters. At range he is dandy with his massive DEF stacking, but in melee the low DEF/ARM combo means that he is way more vulnerable than some other troll casters. It was also fun to see his list that we sort of built together work so well. In a fair fight, my list probably beats his. The feat and my absurd hitting power should allow me to overpower him, but this cagey play style makes for a very different game. The ranged presence i had helped me power through most of it, but it was basically hinging on scenario being dead. On something like spread the net, this would have been awful. It is fun to see that one can sort of go around the problem of raw power and use more finesse to counter it. Lanyssa was sort of MVP here. She killed 3 of the raptors herself. Yeah, you bring her for hunters mark, but against Legion, she is a combat monster. I know that it a corner case, but it was still fun So, i shall move on to new things now. I am not at all sure what it will be though. Next up is my own little SR tournament. I try not to bring the most broken shit to avoid winning my own tournament, but i actually have 3 WTC players signed up for a 16 man event, so i am not too worried about that... Maybe ill try Madrak 2 with 50 dudes... Sounds amazing
|
|
|
Post by grabsnikk on Oct 24, 2017 7:59:36 GMT
I really, really, REALLY want to like Runeshapers. They seem so close to being really good. I've found 90% of games they do absolutely nothing. The other 10% they were MVPs! Steady with tough can be the most amazing thing ever on a model with trembler. They kept living and knocking down whole units of guys and then the rest of my list would pick them off or do something else. I don't really know if they can be fixed other than maybe making them a point or two cheaper. Its like they don't necessarily fit in with our faction sometimes(which drives me nuts since they are the only models we have that do what they do). I really want to like the Runeshapers too but find that 70% of the time they do nothing and the other 30% of the time they get killed before they can get in range to do any work. With their victim stats when they do make attacks they can't survive retaliation. I would love to see dig in removed and just give them a rule that grants cover without having to sacrifice their attacks. Its only a 3man unit so it wouldn't be ball breaking or anything.
|
|
ravenfire
Junior Strategist
Me Mulg me SMASSSSSHHHH
Posts: 244
|
Post by ravenfire on Oct 24, 2017 8:52:21 GMT
Hey that sounds familiar. Had the baby thing happen to me a couple times too. When I got home wither from work or gaming the kid was either playing or sound asleep On the game. Hmm assasins and flanking forces are hard to deal with in low model count armies...
|
|
jarrow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 274
|
Post by jarrow on Oct 27, 2017 6:05:19 GMT
I think I start to add my contribution to 5 game challenge. Here is list I'm gonna play, and first game is behind:
Trollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Band of Heroes
(Borka 1) Borka Kegslayer [+28] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Rok [19] Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] Fennblade Kithkar [0(4)] Stone Scribe Chronicler [4] Trollkin Champion Hero [0(5)] Trollkin Skinner [4] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (min) [6] - Stone Scribe Elder [3] Sons of Bragg [11] Trollkin Champions (max) [16] - Skaldi Bonehammer [5] Trollkin Fennblades (max) [15] - Fennblade Officer and Drummer [5]
And yes, you see right, there is SKINNER included. Idea of list is that fennblades are first wave that hits far and annoy enemy and champions, SoB are secobd wave that hits hard and beast support from back and try to get to really hard targets. Fennblades ar DEF16 against shooting with fein death and Borka can lift them up with Moshpit. also SoB likes moshpit, cos they can tough on ground and still use fervor to do damage.
1st game 1st game was against skorne and Hexeris2. List was beast heavy with mammoth, 2 sentry, gladiator, shaman and 2 krea and some support. Skenario was spread the net that should be better for me. Both armies had +2" deployment, so we started only 27" from each other and after my first turn I feel that Borka was really forward while I advance only ~5". New Stone was amazing and worked really well while I only put 2 fury on it on 1st turn. I start scoring on 2B by 2p and contest enemy zone and flag. Skinner kill will breaker and I killed both Krea's that were not very usefull against me. Hexeris feated on 3A and rid all fury from my stone, failed to kill chronicler on my flag and killed skinner. Beasts kill some champions and fenns. Skorne skore 1 and contest rest. Skorne struggle to kill def14 spellwarded fenns. (2-1)
On turn 3 I have to play little bit risky cos I have to start Mammoth hunt by Borka himself (SoB went first and mammoth killed spray-one with counter blast, that try to hunt agonizer). I do few points of damage, feated and left to mammoths melee range other side of wall with 2 fury. New stone saved my day, cos while I roll only 1 fury I get stone's strength on before Borka activated so my 2 swings made 2 more damage. Rök rolled enough and kill mammoth (4th and 5th attack were really bad and game went exiting, but final attack saved day. Champions killed shaman that was contesting my flag and I score 2 more. (4-1).
Skorne killed rest but 1 champion on one side and RÖK stumble first away from gladiator's melee and then from sentry's melee ending up to 1 wound left. Stumbling drunk is funny fluff-rule. Skorne skored own zone and I score my flag. (5-2) Game ended, cos I had to only walk one last champion ~1" to skorne zone and clear my own models to make Borka line to run to enemy flag. 7-2 scenario won. Skorne player admit, that he should have go second on that scenario, and that might have been better. Don't no sure.
|
|
|
Post by Trollock on Oct 27, 2017 9:27:26 GMT
Thanks for the report! Borka 1 is always a reasonable caster imo. Well worth spending some time with. Your list seem to be 4 points over the limit though some how... I cant build it in Conflict chamber...EDIT: Nope, i just cant read
|
|
|
Post by Hotwater on Oct 27, 2017 22:26:24 GMT
I guess I can post my two Grim1 games so far. I'm pairing him up with my Ragnor List for a few months to see how it works out.
Grim Angus - Runebearer - Bomber - Slag - Slag Battle Wagon Braylen Wanderheart Pyg Bushwhackers - Officer & Mortar Highwaymen Sluggers Krielstone Min - Elder
Game One:
First game was Stand Off into Butcher3 with all the shooty merc solos, eliminators, widowmakers and ruin with 3 other jacks.
I win the roll and pick the most advantageous side for my army leaving him with some forests and a house clogging up the middle. we set up and he runs everything forward, I move my bushwhackers up and kill eyriss with a random mortar deviation, and dump a POW 21 CRA into a destroyer and spike the dice, taking out it's movement. Battlewagon moves forward and I get another good deviation onto his widowmakers, killing two. Everything else runs and stays out of threat ranges. My opponent starts getting cagey and starts plinking at stuff putting grievous on a slag and damage into it's spirit, but without eyriss the slag is still operational. Widow makers take out a couple highwaymen, eliminators kill a few more and ruin moves to threaten the wagon while another jack moves in to contest the right zone the highwaymen are in. Butcher tries to stay safe behind the jack with no movement then passes to me.
I activate Grim1, feat, shoot the jack in the right zone doing some damage and mantrap the 'jack the butcher is hiding behind knocking down him and his dogs. Braylen and the rest of the highwaymen take care of the eliminators and and widow makers in the zone. One Slag goes in on the jack Grim shot and my dice to really hot managing to kill the heavy in that right zone, clearing it completely. Bushwhackers shuffle around and kill the butcher's dogs and Alten with CRAs and put a few damage on butcher himself, mortar drifts off into nothing. He's still got some manhunters that I couldn't hit to save my life. The sluggers plink away at the jacks on the left side of the board because they couldn't see the man hunters and do some damage, I got 14 shots with them which was pretty much insane. Bomber throws two shots at butcher rolling snakes on the first and drifting onto wyshnalyr leaving him on one box, second show connects and I boost and roll terribly and hes able to get away with taking very little damage. Last Slag goes and cripples the second jack on the left side, taking out it's axe arm and cortex. The wagon goes and charges ruin, which slams him into the objective doing a decent amount of damage on ruin and rolling boxcars for damage on the objective, so I shoot the objective and destroy it and pass the turn to him, going up 3 points while he scores none.
My opponent has tilted at this point but he's looking to see if he can salvage this game. He kills the entire unit of bushwhackers with two obliterations, a handcannon, and bombard shot and scoots into the left zone to score. He does negligible damage to the slag engaged with the crippled jack and Ruin can't get to the battle wagon. His remaining forces move in to prevent me from scoring more than one point and I go up to 4 and he goes up to 1.
Its my game to lose at this point. I clear the right zone, the warwagon slams ruin again and puts a shot into the jack the butcher is sitting next to putting them both on the ground and putting some more damage into that jack and a point onto butcher. Grim shoots butcher forcing him to use a focus to negate 3 damage, then the slag kills the knocked down jack clearing a lane or the bomber to charge in and kill butcher. I win on assasination.
Game Two:
This game was the Pit II against Maddox in Storm Division with a heavier battlegroup Stormclad x 2, Firefly, Junior & Charger, storm lances, with laddermore and a unit of stormguard and a stormguard captain. I had also modified the above list to drop the two Slags for two bombers and took out the sluggers for the Sons of Bragg.
I lose the roll and my opponent chooses to go first, I pick the side thats going to put two forests and a house in his way, highwaymen on the left, SoBs left-center, Bushwhackers, Grim and battlegroup in the middle, and the war wagon on the right flank to bully the storm lances. My opponent runs everything forward aggressively stormguard down the center, stormlances to the right zone and he puts a heavy and a light on each side moving toward the rectangular zones. My bushwhackers move up and kill one stormguard and force tough checks on two more, which pass, mortar drifts into nothing, Bomber moves up and generates fury by throwing bombs at the KD'd stormguard. Grim1 moves up, puts up farstrike and shoots the firefly on the right flank and boosts doing 11 damage and I think knocking out the cortex. Bomber #2 runs toward the right zone staying outside of threat. Warwagon runs and stays outside of threat as well. SoBs move up behind the bushwhackers and the highwaymen and Braylen run into the left zone.
My opponent's is overly worried about the warwagon on the right flank and doesn't want to lose his storm lances so he doesn't commit them and hangs back. he moves his jacks into the right zone and takes some pot shots at range with electro leaps and doesn't do any damage. he presses forward with the stormguard and only one can make a clean charge into the bushwhackers, which kills one. They mini-feat and hang out in the center zone. The charger moves up and kills a highwayman and makes another tough, but hangs back near the stormclad on that side outside the rectangle zone. the junior and maddox hang out behind the house with the squire. Grim activates and feats, catching everyone but the two jacks on the left flank, he takes another shot at the Firefly and boosts damage put a couple more points on it, he puts weald secrets on Bomber #1 and camps 2. Bomber #2 obliterates the Firefly and the wagon moves up and shoots at the stormclad but rolls snake eyes and just sits in the zone being very sad and outside the Stormclad's threat. Bushwhackers slip away and do CRA's into some of the storm guard, the squire and Rupert, the squire and one stormguard die. The SoBs move into the circular zone and kill a stormguard, spray another but don't kill. Bomber #2 moves up and tosses a bomb at the captain killing him and moves toward the left rectangle zone. The highwaymen move up and do CRA's into the objective destroying it and I go up to 3, having failed the attempt at a glorious 4pt turn.
My opponent puts the charger in the left zone, a stormclad and laddermore in the right zone and puts rhupert and his remaining stormguard in the circle zone, I remind him he can still run with the stormlances and that they can easily contest two zones and force a harder trade, but he keeps them back anyway. he takes a few more pot shots at my bushwhackers and highwaymen killing 3 models and passes his turn to me. I proceed to clear out the circle zone and live the dream with an 8 man backstab CRA into the charger, killing it. In the Right zone I charge laddermore with the wagon and dismount her, then I kill her with the spray after slamming her away, Then I shoot the pounder at the stormclad hitting it doing some damage and knocking him down. Grim shoots the stormclad, doing some damage and scoots over to the left and camps 2. Then Bomber #2 charges the storm clad, at dice minus 3 manages to kill it with a fury to spare and clears the right zone. Bomber #1 runs to the left zone to score and I end the game at 6-0.
So far I feel pretty good about the list, I've only had 3 games total this year with Grim, so we'll see if that continues.
|
|
|
Post by Trollock on Oct 28, 2017 6:25:25 GMT
My opponent starts getting cagey and starts plinking at stuff putting grievous on a slag and damage into it's spirit, but without eyriss the slag is still operational. Thanks for the report man. Lovely that more ppl catches on to the concept. 5 games is not that much, or at least i didnt think so before a certain baby came along and screwed up my gaming schedule One thing though. Eiryss (and ghost snipers etc) can no longer pick the column for their 3 point damage shot. Just so you know
|
|