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Post by Azahul on Sept 22, 2017 0:44:20 GMT
I'd have to see the final model, but as is I don't think I'd buy it in Skorne for any reason other than looks. The animus does nothing for me if I don't take Gators as well, and its output isn't significantly better or different from the Mammoth. It still seems to be a Minions Gargantuan, namely because we(Skorne) have better things already in faction, and the animus is dead weight on the card.I doubt this held back design space for Minions because of Skorne. Still a sweet model, and I prefer Gators to Pigs anyway for my Minions. I'll buy it, but likely never put it on the table in DoA. It's precisely the fact that Skorne already has better alternatives that raises suspicions that DoA may be constraining Design Space. That's kind of the entire point. If DoA means we now have a hard upper limit in terms of how good our Warbeasts can be, with the Mammoth and Hydra being that cap for Gargantuans, then the Dracodile being an unattractive option next to those two reinforces the view that design space is being constrained. It would be interesting though if we saw the Dracodile actually get buffed in CID in part because Skorne players don't feel they'd ever take it Remember, this is a Gator model. All the Warlocks that would get insane work out of a Gargantuan are on the pig side. If Minions were ever going to get a completely ball-busting Gargantuan, this was it.
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Post by Gaston on Sept 22, 2017 1:06:08 GMT
Pretty vanilla, not unexpected. It'll get taken due to the natural advantages of colossals more than anything else. Rask, Maelok.
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Post by danfromchicago on Sept 22, 2017 1:34:47 GMT
It fits in a swamp pit. That's pretty good.
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Post by Gaston on Sept 22, 2017 1:43:57 GMT
It fits in a swamp put. That's pretty good. Yup!
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vomath
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 53
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Post by vomath on Sept 22, 2017 2:19:24 GMT
I'm confused. Did we get more in information since the LL spoiler? I haven't found anything.
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Post by Azahul on Sept 22, 2017 2:20:52 GMT
Today's Primecast talked about it.
Also about Barnabus2, who sounds absolutely wild and all kinds of cool, but this is the Dracodile thread so I didn't bring him up.
They also repeated some of the stuff about Kwaak & Gub, and I think Longchops's ability to shoot and lay a trap if he kills something is new info?
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Post by danfromchicago on Sept 22, 2017 2:27:51 GMT
It will be interesting to see Barney the Chestcracked's rules.
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vomath
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 53
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Post by vomath on Sept 22, 2017 2:30:27 GMT
Thanks! I'll have to give that a listen.
I don't think the stats for the Dracodile prove that Skorne is interfering with our balance so much as they further illustrate that Gargantuans are hard to balance and that PP still hasn't quite figured it out.
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Post by Azahul on Sept 22, 2017 2:30:59 GMT
If I'm understanding his Feat right, he sounds very Butcher3. Charges in, burns all his Fury, then Feats (and in his case removes half his own army from the board) and fills right on back up.
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Post by Azahul on Sept 22, 2017 2:50:11 GMT
Thanks! I'll have to give that a listen. I don't think the stats for the Dracodile prove that Skorne is interfering with our balance so much as they further illustrate that Gargantuans are hard to balance and that PP still hasn't quite figured it out. Oh, I don't think they prove anything. I'm not too fussed about DoA (I live in an absurdly Skorne-heavy meta so I'm pretty well acquainted with what they can do) so I'm mostly playing Devil's Advocate because... well, to be honest, it is a legitimate concern and something that we'll need to deal with in every release from this point forward. Not concrete proof, but if you were worried at what design space for Minions might look like when DoA is taken into account, the Dracodile is shaping up to be a bit example.
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flogger
Junior Strategist
Posts: 296
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Post by flogger on Sept 22, 2017 7:55:01 GMT
The Dracodile seems sweet. If it fits inside a swamp pit then I'll take the with Barney every time!
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Post by mcdermott on Sept 22, 2017 8:54:43 GMT
Thanks! I'll have to give that a listen. I don't think the stats for the Dracodile prove that Skorne is interfering with our balance so much as they further illustrate that Gargantuans are hard to balance and that PP still hasn't quite figured it out. I honest to god think one of the least likely scenario's I've ever seen in my life regarding a wargame is the undercurrent that they'd pre-emptively nerf an entire factions new model selection rather than altering a theme list that's STILL in CID.
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Post by Gaston on Sept 22, 2017 10:42:39 GMT
Thanks! I'll have to give that a listen. I don't think the stats for the Dracodile prove that Skorne is interfering with our balance so much as they further illustrate that Gargantuans are hard to balance and that PP still hasn't quite figured it out. I honest to god think one of the least likely scenario's I've ever seen in my life regarding a wargame is the undercurrent that they'd pre-emptively nerf an entire factions new model selection rather than altering a theme list that's STILL in CID. Pedantically, the theme list is not in CID.
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Post by Gaston on Sept 22, 2017 12:39:06 GMT
After a bit more math:
The melee potential does not make me enthused. Against Arm 19 a base Dracodile does 55.5 damage. A Raged Wrastler does 53.5. (Including a free charge on both, adding in assult bumps that to a whole 4 pts difference.) It is literally the same issue the Mountain King and Mauler had before they gave the King Rage as an animus. Once you bring a Wrastler to buff the Dracodile, you might as well leave the Dracodile at home. And every other buff applies to both equally, so the Dracodile will always cost double and do a tiny bit extra damage.
It'll get taken every now and then because the animus is intriguing and colossals have other benefits, but purely by the melee numbers it is too costly for what you get.
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Post by Cryptix on Sept 22, 2017 13:07:20 GMT
Reminder the gargants on the whole are pretty underwhelming...The good huge bases are in Warmachine where they're allowed to have STR 19 base.
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