zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Sept 20, 2017 11:15:40 GMT
I can see the psychological aspect. But I can assure you Morghoul2 is quite good. There's no shame in getting enslaved by him I'd say it's an infantry theme because it gives you free stuff for taking infantry. I know that's not universally true, but clearly PP are at least trying to steer list building in a certain direction here. And Brigands just scale very well with Mortality. Maybe even better than Reivers.
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Post by Azahul on Sept 20, 2017 12:18:02 GMT
I mean, we have Mortality in faction. And Parasite. And Crippling Grasp. And Calamity. If Brigands + Damage buff were enough to make a competitive list then you'd see a whole lot more Thornfall Alliance tearing up the meta than you do. Thornfall Alliance being a theme force that gave you free points for taking infantry that I also mostly used for Warbeasts
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Post by Gaston on Sept 20, 2017 14:08:28 GMT
I suppose it goes without saying that Skorne gets Mortality with a Minion arc node and Minions doesn't?
Here to help!
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Sept 20, 2017 14:12:50 GMT
Well with Craft Talisman, Sprint and a very resillient Warlock, I certainly wouldn't pay 14p for an Arc Node. Don't know about your Mortality guy.
And yes, you can also do Mortality + Brigands = fun. It's what I'm saying. This theme doesn't do much with your models that you can't do yourselves in a similar fashion.
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Post by Azahul on Sept 20, 2017 14:31:23 GMT
Gaston Maelok has Mortality and an Arc Node doesn't he? Well with Craft Talisman, Sprint and a very resillient Warlock, I certainly wouldn't pay 14p for an Arc Node. Don't know about your Mortality guy. And yes, you can also do Mortality + Brigands = fun. It's what I'm saying. This theme doesn't do much with your models that you can't do yourselves in a similar fashion. I should note two things. As I've said a few times in this topic, I'm not particularly fussed at the impact this theme will have on future Minion balance considerations. I understand and appreciate the concerns of my fellow Minion players, and I see where they're coming from, but I don't think it will have a big impact. But! I am coming at this as a purely pig player. The pig Warlocks, particularly the 'beast Warlocks, generally outclass Skorne Warlocks by a large margin. Gators are not in the same position. It's a lot easier to see Gators being impacted by this in future because a Warbeast is broken with Naaresh that wouldn't be broken with Jaga-Jaga, as opposed to the same situation playing out with a future pig Warbeast with the Naaresh vs Arkadius comparison. Meanwhile, this theme does do one thing with our models which we can't do in a similar fashion. And that's run a mixed Gator/Farrow(/Skorne) battlegroup. With support, also a thing Minions lack. That's why all the focus here is on Warbeast lists in the "infantry" theme, because that's what stands out to us.
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crow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 310
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Post by crow on Sept 20, 2017 14:49:43 GMT
Yeah, announcement about the new theme has caused me to reconsider bolstering my minions for a while. Hate skorne and will wait to see what this does to minions. On the plus side I guess this means more fundage for my mercenaries
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Post by Gaston on Sept 20, 2017 15:42:25 GMT
Gaston Maelok has Mortality and an Arc Node doesn't he? Dammit Calamity. Foiled by my own words.
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Post by custardboy on Sept 20, 2017 22:03:38 GMT
It probably won't be used much because murder turtles aren't available. Its just the whole future releases thing we don't want to have to be balanced out. We still have no cavalry, basic infantry or budget beater. Yay let's balance those with +2 str, no kd, 3 factions worth of animi and enrage/prodding >.>
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vomath
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 53
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Post by vomath on Sept 21, 2017 3:45:03 GMT
Remember that Minions as a Faction wasn't allowed to have something as innocuous as Advance Move on Warbeasts because of an interaction between one Warlock, one Warbeast, and a support Solo. Not even a strong interaction, mind you, just a perceived significantly negative play experience. Every Minions 'beast is available to as many Skorne Warlocks as Minions Warlocks; there is no universe where PP doesn't consider half of the Warlocks that have access to a new 'beast during design and testing.
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Post by Cryptix on Sept 21, 2017 4:04:57 GMT
Remember that Minions as a Faction wasn't allowed to have something as innocuous as Advance Move on Warbeasts because of an interaction between one Warlock, one Warbeast, and a support Solo. Not even a strong interaction, mind you, just a perceived significantly negative play experience. Every Minions 'beast is available to as many Skorne Warlocks as Minions Warlocks; there is no universe where PP doesn't consider half of the Warlocks that have access to a new 'beast during design and testing. Well at least they're being fair about the shooting into deployment thing, looks like they even did the same to Cygnar. *gasp*
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Post by gobber on Sept 21, 2017 4:51:34 GMT
I'm salty about this theme but the next CID cycle is minions which I'm very optimistic about. I think we'll do well on the balance.
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Post by smirkingcoprophage on Sept 21, 2017 5:53:00 GMT
I am sure Skorne would be salty if they were enslaved by the 5 worst casters in Cygnar? At this point that doesn't make any thematic sense and would be ridiculous. But as a Skorne player I think it'd be really awesome if they made a Merc theme for Magnus (first version or all versions) allowing him to take some or all Skorne units.
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Post by Azahul on Sept 21, 2017 23:42:04 GMT
Well, there's the Dracodile. Three initials, Fury 5, Rat 5, POW 14 Assault Spray, Man Eater. Not particularly outrageous. Cue the eternal speculation on whether this proves that models being taken by Skorne isn't a big deal or if the Dracodile would have been stronger had it not been developed along DoA
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Post by danfromchicago on Sept 22, 2017 0:07:20 GMT
Well, there's the Dracodile. Three initials, Fury 5, Rat 5, POW 14 Assault Spray, Man Eater. Not particularly outrageous. Cue the eternal speculation on whether this proves that models being taken by Skorne isn't a big deal or if the Dracodile would have been stronger had it not been developed along DoA So it does about as much damage as a raged wrastler. The initials are a wash. 4 attacks at P+S 20 vs 5 attacks at P+S 19. I mean stats probably says it's marginally higher. Of course your caster doesn't have to spend any FURY to get the output, but it's a lot more expensive
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boozy
Junior Strategist
Posts: 429
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Post by boozy on Sept 22, 2017 0:32:53 GMT
I'd have to see the final model, but as is I don't think I'd buy it in Skorne for any reason other than looks. The animus does nothing for me if I don't take Gators as well, and its output isn't significantly better or different from the Mammoth. It still seems to be a Minions Gargantuan, namely because we(Skorne) have better things already in faction, and the animus is dead weight on the card.I doubt this held back design space for Minions because of Skorne.
Still a sweet model, and I prefer Gators to Pigs anyway for my Minions. I'll buy it, but likely never put it on the table in DoA.
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