|
Post by mcdermott on Sept 16, 2017 0:18:19 GMT
I'd take 75% chance of working from 24" with a very good melee and defensive profile over 100% chance of working from 14" with mediocre melee and defensive profile. Actually its a 35% chance based off of scatter. Of course, your also ignoring Point cost investments into the equation as well. Also a Spriggain has a better per points defensive profile than the Victor. A 5" template centered on a small based model has a 50/50 chance of still hitting that small based model with scatter, roll a 1 2 or 3 on distance and you're still hitting the target.
|
|
|
Post by Rowdy Dragon on Sept 16, 2017 1:39:18 GMT
A 5" template centered on a small based model Your right sorry. Thats still terrible odds for something as expensive as Victor.
|
|
|
Post by mcdermott on Sept 16, 2017 3:46:50 GMT
I'm inclined to disagree given that it isn't JUST the pieplate but YMMV
|
|
Growl
Junior Strategist
Posts: 496
|
Post by Growl on Sept 16, 2017 10:23:13 GMT
I actually played with Victor a lot for while, in a Sorscha Oceans list, and found him to be really great! Several times I would run him or Boundless charge him up the board if I went first, then on turn 2 move up Sorscha and FEAT, and blast away 2d3 shots at things close by and then have a good chance at placing my big AOE. If I went 2nd and had an over aggressive opponent, I could do the same thing on my turn 1. With the artillery kapitain along for the ride, so yes, 3 more points, he had a lot more impact, actually winning me my first game against Ghost Fleet because of a better scatter. I think though in my case, that Sorscha is one of the best RAT fixers in the game because, Stationary and Knockdown, so maybe that was pretty caster specific. Actually, now that I think about it more, Victor won me two games basically by himself, the Ghost Fleet game I mentioned, and a game against Hailey2 where I floated a fire AOE on both of them, boosted damage and then watched them (with glee) burn to death. Now granted those were against squishy gals and there was some degree of luck there as well, but when rolling dice, we are all dealing with luck.
Moral of the story, hate the game baby, not the Victa.
|
|
|
Post by pyr0maniacal on Sept 16, 2017 13:15:12 GMT
Now I want to try a Spriggan and a Victor just to see if it's as bad as internet people claim.
|
|
|
Post by welshhoppo on Sept 16, 2017 14:54:37 GMT
Now I want to try a Spriggan and a Victor just to see if it's as bad as internet people claim. Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
|
|
|
Post by pyr0maniacal on Sept 16, 2017 15:22:16 GMT
All souls cry out for salvation.
|
|
|
Post by Rowdy Dragon on Sept 16, 2017 15:46:54 GMT
Now I want to try a Spriggan and a Victor just to see if it's as bad as internet people claim. No hey are not BAD. They don't so much be bad as kinda disapoint. You try out Conquest and are like "Wow I have allot of presense" then the Victor, and bleh. The Spriggain just doesn't compare positively to 90% of in faction or even out of faction jacks for its price point.
|
|
|
Post by pyr0maniacal on Sept 16, 2017 16:18:07 GMT
Okay, disappointing then. But I seriously do not understand the pricing for some things. The Spriggan is one of those things. I guess it's because it is so flexible?
But I could potentially see the Victor being useful to me when I go against Satyxis Raiders. Lighting them on fire is fun.
|
|
|
Post by tjhairball on Sept 17, 2017 14:12:47 GMT
Okay, disappointing then. But I seriously do not understand the pricing for some things. The Spriggan is one of those things. I guess it's because it is so flexible? But I could potentially see the Victor being useful to me when I go against Satyxis Raiders. Lighting them on fire is fun. It makes perfect sense as long as we work from saying "PP screwed up" and then ask ourselves how they screwed up. My working theory is that during the late stages of their playtesting, Harkevich seemed off the hook good to them (or was simply their main benchmark warcaster for Khador), so they kept adjusting the costs of ranged warjacks to bring them in line with how they would perform with Harkevich. Destroyer was 16 points on Mk III release (subsequently knocked down to 14). Decimator, 16 points. This might have been adjusted again for battlebox purposes just before release. You don't see it very much, even though it's in the battlebox, but at least in its case, the ranged capability wasn't as big of a piece of its kit (it has superior melee abilities to the Destroyer). It's hard to be excited about non-AOE RAT 4 guns on an unboostable attack roll. Spriggan, 19 points. Spriggan has really good synergy with Harkevich's abilities, and being able to do Targeting Flare either before or after a Broadside is a pretty clutch piece of tech. Demolisher was 16 points on Mk III release, and got its AOEs nerfed from 4" to 3" ... while the extremely similar (and generally slightly more popular in Mk II) Devastator went to 14 points. As icing on the cake The Demolisher has one nifty Harkevich trick - if you Broadside before activating the Demolisher and it gets to close back up again. As icing on the cake, just when so many other warjacks were picking up High Explosive on ranged AOE weapons, the Demolisher didn't. Victor and Conquest... well, that could be the Colossal / Powerup interaction some, but Victor's gun is a more impressive one to get extra unboosted attacks out of. The Demolisher / Devastator comparison is particularly striking, because the two warjacks are so similar. The Demolisher got to project a little less blast damage a little further away (now significantly less blast damage a little further away). PP changed the Destroyer - it's not dominating competitive play, but it has a presence on the board at 14 points. They haven't gotten around to changing the others, probably because people didn't make as much noise about them. Not many people owned very many Demolishers, Decimators, or Victor. Now, mind you, this doesn't make perfect sense out of some of the other pricing decisions (like Ruin vs Beast-09) but it's a start.
|
|
|
Post by Soul Samurai on Sept 17, 2017 14:46:57 GMT
Here's the thing: it's possible that PP don't want to make Stealth TOO easy to circumvent; if including mass stealth removal is too easy*, then stealth is simply worthless - worse, even, since some models rely on stealth to survive longer enough to justify their points or even just to do their job. Others simply pay for having Stealth, which makes them too expensive when it's too unreliable. We all know how hard it is to justify paying points for situational models after all. Stealth is especially bad since it's kind of an "all-or-nothing" ability, and also because a lot of expensive solos (and even some casters) rely on it to stay alive.
So it might stand to reason that PP WANTS the Spriggan to be expensive, so that it's not trivial to include him in a list and have an answer to stealth; you need to PAY for that answer to stealth, NOT take a cost-effective warjack and get anti-stealth for free.
Well, maybe. I mean, I could see how that could be the case.
*"Too easy" can be hard to define, but I would guess that if, say, a quarter of the factions in the game have caster-independant mass stealth removal, then stealth becomes a useless ability for competitive play. Well, I'm sure that's an oversimplification, but it's basically my impression of how the game works.
|
|
|
Post by Soul Samurai on Sept 17, 2017 14:50:13 GMT
Sorry, double post.
|
|